Episode #35: Wrestling Fetishes, Squirting, Piss Play, and BDSM with Lola Jean, Sex Educator and Speaker

INTRODUCTION:

Lola Jean is a Sex Educator, Wrestler, Pro Domme, and World Record Holder for Volume Squirting (solo), providing the No Frills Sex Education we all need and deserve. Lola brings a refreshing understanding to sex, sexuality, and kink to push individuals past what they think they are capable of. 

Lola offers events, classes, and talks to help people have better sex with themselves and each other like Pegging, Squirting, and Libido Awakening. There is so much we are not exploring due to fear. Fear of how society will view us. How our partners will view us. How our peers will view us. Lola helps individuals stop making excuses and unlock who they are and what they deserve.

In addition to this, Lola provides individuals with tools and information that is inclusive of the spectrum of our sexuality. She helps women put their pleasure first, and demand it. Lola introduces men to anal pleasure as well. 

Lola is available for interviews and to comment on: squirting, pegging, BDSM, power dynamics, consent, anal, masturbation.

 

INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):

·      Sex Education from a Unique and Dynamic Perspective 

·      Wrestling Fetish Defined

·      Squirting or Women AND Men!!!

·      The Importance of Loving What You Do

·      BDSM

·      Let’s Talk About Orgasms!

·      Pegging

·      Piss Play

·      Kinks and Fetishes Contrasted

·      Removing Pressure to Perform from Sex

·      Internalized Homophobia

·      The Five Most Common Kinks

o  Service

o  Image Validation

o  Power Play

o  Shame

o  Novelty

 

CONNECT WITH LOLA:

 

Website: https://www.lolajean.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LolaJeanEducation

IG: http://instagram.com/lolajeandotcom

Twitter: https://twitter.com/lolajeandotcom

 

LOLA’S RECOMMENDATIONS:

FEELD: https://bit.ly/3u4EyzB

Squirting Chart: https://bit.ly/3H7YuVM          

 
Squirting for Men:
https://bit.ly/3G4zsFU

 
Best Anal Sex Toys for All Genders:
https://bit.ly/3H4Wyh2

CONNECT WITH DE’VANNON:

 

Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.com

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCM

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopix

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannon

Email: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com

 

DE’VANNON’S RECOMMENDATIONS:

·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)

https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370

TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs

 

·      Adina Howard – Freak Like Me: https://bit.ly/3KPB0Hc

 

INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?:

·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.

https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon

 

TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00]

You’re listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De’Vannon and I’ll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what’s really going on in your life.

There is nothing off the table and we’ve got a lot to talk about. So let’s dive right into this episode.

De’Vannon: Hello hello. Hello everyone. Today, I got with me Ms. Lola Jean. This bad-ass woman here is a sex educator. She’s a writer she’s Pro Domme , and she is the world record holder for volume squirting. And that’s right. I said, squirting. This episode is highly sexual and also highly educational. And I think those two make a great couple.

We’re going to talk about squirting for both women and men [00:01:00] yes men and can squirt to. And since we’re talking about men, we also had to talk about pegging. Yeah. So we know some of you boys out there, like to get poked in the booty and we’re here to let you know that that is totally okay. 

Lola has a totally amazing blog on her website, which is LolaJean.com I highly recommended, and I highly recommend this episode.

Hey, Lola, baby. Thank you so much for coming on the sex drugs and Jesus podcast today. How the fuck are you up there in New York?

Lola: Good. I would say never thought I’d be on a podcast with Jesus in the name, but I am excited 

De’Vannon: Well, Hey you now Jesus invented sex. You know, that’s what I believe in. If you know, of course on this show, we don’t believe in who you want or nothing at all. That’s always cool. But you know, as far as I’m concerned, you know, God invented sex. You know, we’re just working through the motions down here. So all of the Kingery in the world really [00:02:00] started with him

Lola: probably. I mean, there was definitely some bondage that went on. I’m talking to the crop, you know? 

De’Vannon: thinking about the crucifix. Hey, you know what? Get read, get out of it. What you will, honey. No one can tell you you are wrong.

Lola: I have a wrestling move. I called the Jesus and it’s because I put their arms in a lock then their head kind of rests on my pelvis. It hurts though. It hurt. It doesn’t feel good. 

De’Vannon: You keep doing it over and over again. Okay. So the went through your website. I researched you. I want to give a shout out to our friend David, over, the big pond in the UK from the authentic man pod cast, because I heard you on his show And I was like, I have got to get this brilliant mind on my show.

And here you are, this is a dream come true. [00:03:00] And so sex educator, instructor and coach pro Dom, I’m gonna need you to tell me what that is. A wrestler writer, no frills sex education. Can you give us a breakdown of all of these different aspects of you?

Lola: Yeah. So I mean, it kind of it sort of breaks down into income streams and then like the way I describe it. But you know, first and foremost, I am a sex educator, which can mean whatever I want it to mean on any given day. And it’s, you know, progressed and grown and evolved over time and it continues to, but what I find that I enjoy the most and what I am most skilled at and what people enjoy is really creating these experiences.

So whether that is a class, whether it is an event, whether it is a product, something for someone, for artists, not someone from multiple people to experience. I do coaching on a limited basis, but I, I’m not looking to see people regularly. I’m looking to provide [00:04:00] and experiences for the masses and not necessarily, you?

know, individuals.

A pro Dom is a pro dominance will often refer to this as a dominatrix which also is a bit gendered as well. But industry terms is pro Dom. And within that, my main niche is wrestling fetish. So I wrestle typically CIS men for money and wrestling. It’s, you know, it’s it’s clothes that looks athletic.

I tell them it can feel like whatever you want it to feel like. But for me, it’s got to feel like a sport and I use more Brazilian jujitsu to put people in holds, have them feel trapped. And that naturally involves a lot of, you know, classic domination, verbal approaches to.

De’Vannon: So you’re mixing in some of the things from BDSM into the wrestle.

Lola: Well, it is, I mean, the, the, the niche [00:05:00] existed, like before I got into it, it was an underserved market because it’s like, okay, of the people that are into this, how many can provide it and have how many can provide it, how many want to provide it in this context? And then have how many can provide in that context?

How many have the skills of a dominatrix as opposed to the skills of a wrestler or a grappler? So, and also this is, it’s something that, you know, it’s, it’s naturally going to be eroticized because it has to do with a power differential, especially when you’re thinking of the subversion of, you know, female or femme strength to male or mass strength when you’re thinking of size and it’s the feeling of feeling trapped and a struggle, which is just naturally something that’s going to be erotic to us.

And then the bodies are just very close as well too. So. It’s not that far to, you know, put that BDSM element into it. There’s a lot of superhero fantasies. I’m Superman and you are, you know, the villain and you have trapped me and I can’t get out of [00:06:00] your grasp type of a thing. Like, you know, it’s not that far of a stretch where I feel like other ones might be like, it seems like pretty obvious to me why this is a roboticized. 

De’Vannon: Oh my God, this, this reminds me when I was in high school. I didn’t Greco Roman wrestling for about six months before I got tired of getting my ass kicked. And then I became a team manager, but I will tell you getting my ass kicked. It was never so hot in my life. The way those boys would. Oh. And we know wrestler guy, they were like just delicious.

And they would just pin me down and I wouldn’t even know what that was really trying to win. Lola. I don’t know.

Lola: And that’s the thing it’s like, it can still be completely platonic. It’s just the context that changes it so I can wrestle people professionally and then I can also do it in my sex life. And like, it’s the context that makes something erotic or not. I’ve taught classes on this. That was honestly more textual, like contextual based.

And there would be men in the class, but like, I’m not gonna be paired with another man. I don’t [00:07:00] want to do that. That’s gross. It’s like, you understand what we’re doing by mixing the genders? That’s the weird thing, Right.

You’re supposed to wrestle people of the same gender. We’re doing a different, a weirder thing.

 But all of a sudden it’s like this internalized homophobia that just rules them. 

De’Vannon: Oh, that toxic masculinity is so 

Lola: Yeah. Yeah. 

De’Vannon: to go and easily go now. So with this wrestling, is this the sort of fetish or work that involves ejaculation?

Lola: Well, it is different for each person. So it, it still falls under sex work. Even though that I might not be having any kind of penetrative sex or no one may be orgasming in my practice. If I feel comfortable with someone, they can release themselves if they wish, but I’m not touching anything and I’m not cleaning it up, nothing can touch me.

That’s my role. So sometimes we’ll do it in their pants or away, or I’ll keep my body away. But that is if I allow it and I feel comfortable with them, but I’m always to be [00:08:00] closed, but they, if they want to do that on their own time, that’s fine. Or I’ve had one client where I was like holding him up his like throat.

Like not really, but kind of holding up against the wall, more fantasy style. And he, just in his pants. Well, I was yelling at him and it was really hot. And like, that’s the kind of thing I would allow, it, depends on the person. And like I tried, I gave it to them, like, it’s a gift, but you know, all their providers are going to be completely different with what they allow and what they don’t allow.

De’Vannon: So when he came, did he, was he touching himself or did he just come because you were choking him and yelling at him?

Lola: I believe sometimes they don’t touch themselves as it happens, but yeah, he was touching himself and th this was one of the most memorable ones too, because when he ejaculated, he just broke out into hysterical laughter and like fell to the floor. And I was like, oh my God, what just happened? He’s like, oh, it’s sometimes it happens.

Like, you know, when I, when I orgasm and I’m like, that was amazing. Like, it was, you could just tell how organic it was. But I had never seen that before. And I was like, this is incredible. [00:09:00]

De’Vannon: Well, that’s not type of shit you see in porn ever. 

Lola: Wow. 

De’Vannon: never seen a man break out in hysterical. Laughter I’m jealous girl.

Lola: But that on the to-do list, 

De’Vannon: So I want to get a little bit of your personal struggle. So my research review, I found that article some, and they were saying like you kind of got into this because you got fired from a waitressing job in New York of all places. So what can you walk me through why you got fired and how you ended up in a sex dungeon?

Lola: Yeah. So in advertising for maybe five or so years, and I to be bored and miserable and I, you know, I switched jobs and I moved to New York and I was still bored and miserable. So I quit. I was trying to find another job and I couldn’t. Or a job that would make me happy. And while I was doing that, I [00:10:00] was waitressing and, you know, getting gigs and odd jobs and things like that.

And I think some of the odd jobs maybe were, you know, sex adjacent or within that industry. But as I was exploring that on my personal side but I got fired from my waitressing job cause I have a problem with authority, shocking. And, and that, honestly, that was really It with the way their motivation style and their authority style.

 So when I got fired I was like, well, I don’t want to go back to advertising. So let me find a job I don’t hate. And that’s when I started kind of making different connections in the sex industry that I was, you know, exploring for personal reasons. I’m like, Hey, maybe I can do this thing for money. And.

I mean, not like this thing. I worked at a sex party where I was a dungeon monitor. So I was like, just in charge of like safety of the area and clean up. And after I did that, I was like, oh, never gonna do that again. But but that clued me in that like, oh, Hey, maybe there’s things I can do in this industry while I figure out what I want to do with the rest of my life.

I [00:11:00] didn’t go into an intending. Like I’m going to be a sex educator. I was just like, please get me something I don’t hate while I figure out what it is that I want to do.

De’Vannon: It is important in this life to do things that we want to do because. The opposite of that is doing something that you don’t want to do, causes stress, which will really draw down your lifespan. 

Lola: And

I think it’s that we either need to love what we do or we need to do something that enables us to do what we love to do because not everything we love to do. You know, we should do for money or we should do professionally, or, you know, even we could love playing the guitar. We’re not going to be like a famous singer or something like that, but we love to do it.

So it’s not the thing that has to be, you know, your, your lifeblood. Like, I got a lot of people that, you know, are really curious about being a sex educator, but they don’t have anything new to say or share. They just like consuming it. So they want to do it. And sometimes [00:12:00] that’s not enough of a reason. 

De’Vannon: honey, you know, you know, sex sells, you just can’t go wrong with it. How did you find that particular sex opportunity after you got fired from waitress?

Lola: I was attending, I was attending sex parties or I was trying to, I think I went to two and had a horrible time each time and left crying. And I was like, well, I didn’t like attending it. Maybe I could work at it. And like in general, I like, I like having a job at a party at like having something to do, even now.

I like a lot of my colleagues are like, yeah, I prefer to have a job at a party than like, being an attendee. Cause you, you have a thing to, do you have a purpose? So I had contacted the people like, Hey, are there any roles that you need, filled here? And that, that was how I, I just asked 

that’s all. 

De’Vannon: to get into this, do you find an ad somewhere? Is there a number you call these? you just Google it? Like, how do you, like, if I’m brand new, fresh, I hear this interview. You’re like, you know what? level was on to [00:13:00] something, let me see how 

Lola: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: one go?

Lola: I mean, a lot of it is because you have to think of like, what are you providing versus what is self-serving? I am not a fan of academia and going that route for, for this field in particular, unless you’re looking to do something maybe in like primary education or something within therapy specifically, but community is the key to anything involved in sex.

Community is everything. You can’t really go?

at this completely alone. You’re going to have to be involved in community at some point. And also, so people can vouch for you because there’s a lot of really bad people around too. And a lot of gross people and creepy people, et cetera, et cetera. But I mean, I’m, I’m hiring a couple of positions right now.

So those are things you can always look out for, but it’s. Attending events, getting to know people talking. It’s a lot of word of mouth. I have probably I can, oh my career to word of mouth and me just not shutting up about stuff. And you know, not just like [00:14:00] self promotion, but just talking to people and being curious and seeing opportunity.

And it’s a lot of my marketing advertising and business background that like contributes to this as well. But there isn’t a specific path and my path might not work for other people. And you know, there are other, like my colleague, Cameron Glover has a sex ed business academy. That’s not an academia, you know, type of certification, but it may give you the tools you need to create something.

That’s not the only route. It is a route. So there, there isn’t anything specific. I will say. I probably got in a good time as well. And also before everything went completely digital and cluttered and I had already built a name for myself, but it’s really. If this is something you’re truly passionate about, expect to do the work and not have the work done for you.

I feel like academia is just like show up and we’ll give you a degree. If you keep doing the work that we lay out like this, this is not like that. [00:15:00] But I will say for me personally, like the people I work with who, you know, put in good effort and we work well together and I like what they bring to the table.

Like I champion them and I want them to do well and I give them opportunities. So if, if you’re good, you’ll get there.

De’Vannon: I know that’s right, girl. So I love how personal it is. 

Lola: Mm. 

De’Vannon: all it all is community is everything, you 

Lola: Everything. 

De’Vannon: the community. So, so, so, much in so many different ways you know, that’s a, a good alternative say to maybe like more nefarious things like, oh, gangs, you know, 

Lola: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: gangs that inflict harm on people, and stuff like that.

Because, you 

Lola: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: you know, when we, and I’m thinking a lot about polls right now, cause you know, that was all like that in like in New York. And then we have, you know, You know, our trainees and everything like that. And of course, miss a lecture worked in a sex dungeon of [00:16:00] course. And but you know, a lot of people in the LGBTQ plus community get kicked out of different churches homes and things like that.

And sometimes we end up, like I did homeless or, you know, is that when the drugs or whatever the case may be, you know, honey, I think I would have been in better company. Hannah found my way into the sex community, you know, cause it, it sounds very like motherly kind of what you’re talking about.

Lola: yeah. And even like, even like pro Dom in the proton community, I think when you were saying sex, Sergeant you’re referring to like a BDSM dungeon and I wasn’t putting two and two together, but like even the, the product, like to be a dominatrix, a community is everything for making money, for safety and for taking care of each other as well, too.

And like, you know, me and my colleagues have, we’re developing a baby down boot camp for people looking to get into it or people that have just started. So, and there’s things you can do where it’s like, you can go to a house and you could have more training there’s downsides to it, but. Present people to that.

And we want to make it accessible as well, because it was something [00:17:00] that was very, very date kept too. But there is because it’s, it’s like kind of chosen family as well when you, these communities exist because they’re the communities that existed before that did not serve these people. So it does tend to be like a chosen family taking care of each other kind of thing. 

De’Vannon: Absolutely my dear. Now let’s switch gears here. Let’s talk about this wording business. So you apparently, okay. World know this, this is so like amazing. Like a squirting is so like involved and I never knew this. I didn’t know. There was a world record holding her whole, I didn’t know there was a recording for scoring.

So according to research of you, you’re the world worker holder for volumes squirting solo. I see 1,250 milliliters and then 25 seconds. Can you explain to me break down and is this again? It’s record. 

Lola: No, because Guinness is a family [00:18:00] organization. So they said, no, you cannot set your record with us. 

De’Vannon: Well, fuck you get us. 

Lola: Yeah, 

De’Vannon: tight before we got a little squirt a little, you feel better.

Lola: I know. Unlike God, I did this podcast in the UK and like apparently the person who like founded the Guinness world records, his last name is like mixed border. I’m not kidding. It’s that or something similar to that where it’s like, are you serious? I didn’t even realize it, but this was something that like, I think I had kind of always like, kind of joked around with, like, there was a scientist that I’d worked with who said the max amount, someone could squirt was 900 milliliters and I’d always joke, like, yeah.

But I feel like I could crush that. Like I know that I have an insane amount of volume and I have an incredible amount of control and I’m very, very competitive. So when I talked about it, I think like someone someone’s like you should do. Just like set a record out of it. And it’s going to says, no, make it a press event [00:19:00] and like, just do your own thing.

And like, I’m so glad I did because it gave me so much legitimacy cause otherwise it, you know, it was putting it’s the proof in the pudding right now. I was putting my money where my mouth is and I don’t do things small. So I made a big event around it and I still did it to get a standard. So within a one minute period, and the stipulations were using only the assistance of one’s person meeting my hands.

So it was no, no partners, no toys doing it by myself, measuring the volume within that one minute period. And I didn’t penetrate myself and I didn’t orgasm that wasn’t part of the rules. I just did. Because that’s how I do it, but also kind of to prove a point with a little fuck you that, you know, we don’t know as much about squirting as we think we do, because I would constantly see people saying different things.

I’m like, yeah, my body can disprove that. But that doesn’t, that doesn’t make sense for me. My story isn’t being talked about, it’s all about this partner activity. You do this thing, this happens very technique-based. And I think that made a lot of people, myself included, feel really left out and feel like it is [00:20:00] not any control over the person who was doing the squirting.

We’re just like passive recipients. Cause that’s what people Volvos are. Right. So, so yeah. And within 25 seconds, I squirted out 1,250 milliliters, which is, I believe about five and a half cups, a 1.2, five liters. So if you think of a big Coke bottle, more than that, it’s a lot, it’s a lot of liquid, the poured out of my body as well.

So yeah. 

De’Vannon: Okay, well, let me just give you a clap on that. you squirt, okay, you said you didn’t orgasm, so it sounds like you can command your body in such a way that you can or cannot orgasm when you squirt is that

Lola: I can command my body in such a way that I could control when I squirt I do not have control over my orgasm. 

De’Vannon: when you score it.

Lola: I mean, I have a role in my orgasm, but I can’t command an orgasm. I should say that. 

De’Vannon: Got you. So, so squirting is your superpower. 

Lola: [00:21:00] Yeah. 

De’Vannon: So when you skirt, how does it feel? Cause like in the porn and everything, the woman usually started gyrating and all of that. And so is that, is that like for real or like, does it feel kind of like an orgasm or.

Lola: No. So I, I like to liken it to and field goals. touchdowns or.

orgasm and feel goals is squirting. And, you know, you Can win the game with field goals. There’s still points. There are a lot easier to get. You can kick them from further away, sometimes you want to get a touchdown. And a lot of times when you get the touchdown, you get to kick the extra point to.

So it’s like, you know, it’s, if you’re getting a touchdown, you’re probably getting an extra point afterwards, unless you have a really shitty kicker. But, or, or, you know, the wind’s blowing the wrong way, whatever it may be, they’re, they’re just different. But it still is enjoyable. So I like to kind of separate, I think of people who squirt, I think there’s two different camps.

I think there’s some people where, you know, it’s, [00:22:00] if the wind is blowing the right way, or if you stimulate them in a certain way, this will happen. Or there’s people in a camp similar to me where squirting is how their body expresses. Pleasure. It’s just something, it’s something that happens when pleasure happens.

It doesn’t mean it happens every time, but it’s how, it’s how their body expresses pleasure. It’s just like how their body operates. So it’s something that happens a lot more regularly. So I say it’s very easy for me to squirt. And I can control that, but I can’t, I can’t control to not squirt. Usually when I’m orgasming, I am squirting, but also like our bodies are still body.

So sometimes I orgasm and I don’t squirt sometimes I don’t do either of them. And there are a lot of reasons for that to be able to happen. But I like in the feeling to it, it feels like a release. It feels like when you have to sneeze for like 10 minutes and you, you can’t, and then you finally sneeze or you have this itch that you can’t get to, and then you find something on a wall and you scratch it and you finally get that itch.

Like, it feels like that kind of release, like, oh, okay. I got it.[00:23:00]

De’Vannon: Can every one squirt.

Lola: I think everyone can squirt.

 I don’t think they need to, I don’t think they’re missing out on that much if they can’t, but everyone’s on a different timeline and some people, they, they don’t start squirting or realizing they can until they’re in their sixties or something like that. And, and it happens.

 has to do with a pelvic floor coordination, not strength and just like relationship with your vulva plus You have to have that in gorgeous, but I think everyone is able to do it. And I’ve, I’ve guided a lot of people to doing it themselves. If that’s something that they want to as well.

But I take a really hands-off approach cause like it’s going to happen on your own timeline. I’ve taught myself to out of just like trial error and curiosity, I also hate scoring a lot. of the time I have a very love, hate relationship with it. So I’m not going to tell people like you need to try this thing because I hate it. [00:24:00] It’s S I don’t want to swear all the time. I don’t want to. And I hate that it is messy and I hate, or even if it’s messy, I hate that. I have to think about cleanup and I hate that. I have to worry about that. And it’s always in the back of my head in addition to like, well, I hope I orgasm, or I hope I’m, I’m let me focus on what my body’s feeling.

 And it’s helpful when I have a partner who like, treats this as their own responsibility to like, they come prepped or they’re, they’re like, okay, let me get out the pads or whatever it may be. But I just, I wish I didn’t always do it and it can be really annoying and sometimes I don’t want to start, but my body does.

De’Vannon: You are so fucking amazing, like who knew, who knew, who knew such struggles existed in this? 

Lola: I know. 

De’Vannon: So on your website, which is totally kick ass website, Lola jean.com. Of course, this will go in the show notes. You have a [00:25:00] handy-dandy squirting chart and and I think everyone in the world should look at this.

It’s kind of like an if then algorithm sort of thing. And it 

Lola: The flow, a flow chart, 

De’Vannon: a flow chart, you know, reminds me of my days in corporate America. like who wants to engage in squirting is what it reads at the top. The right arrow says me, the left arrow says my partner. it kind of works his way down from there.

 And they say, does this person, does the person who wants to engage in squirting have a vulva, then you mentioned Volvos before. Can you explain to me what a Volvo is this plays a role into squirting?

Lola: Yeah. So vulva is the external genitalia. Vagina is the internal genitalia. And we’re talking about the Volvo. We’re talking about the labia or talking about the clutter is we’re talking about the vagina. There’s the internal clutter as well. We’re generally talking about the sex organ. We’re not talking about the whole genital.

So the appropriate term is like, [00:26:00] we’re talking about people with penises. You either have a penis, you have a Volvo or your intersects. So that’s just the appropriate term and I’m not going to try to gender people. Cause that doesn’t really matter. Cause like, if you have a vulva, you are capable of squirting.

 It’s not that like, oh, if you’re a woman, if you have a vulva. So I don’t want to assume of like the people partnered. It could be two people with Volvo’s. That, that factors into it. And even if the person with like the vulva, whether they’re doing the squirting or they have, you know, body empathy, because they also have a Volvo.

So that’s more of the question of that. And this is to understand of, you know, to make sure you have the right mindset going into squirting?

I like to say that this is the class where I disappoint men. But, or I just disappoint a lot of people cause they’re like, give me the answer. How do I score it?

And I’m like, it’s, there’s not like, here’s the one thing that you do. But there has to be a general understanding. And I think a lot of people that contact me are feeling really pressured to squirt by [00:27:00] either society or their partner. And if that is the case, like there’s a high likelihood that you won’t because of that until you unpack that because that’s, you gotta, you gotta do it for the right reasons. 

De’Vannon: Yeah, you can’t be like all stressed out and shit. 

Lola: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: Like everybody 

Lola: Yeah. Or, or in some cases it’s like the people with the Volvos, they’re like, I don’t really care about squirting, but my partner does. It’s like, well, they need to chill out. 

De’Vannon: and unpack why they’re so 

Lola: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: horn. Put this in their head or where the fuck did they get it from?

Lola: Yeah. Because the thing is squirting is not about anyone else, except for the person doing this. 

De’Vannon: Well now, you know, a lot of men read into that and they look at a guy fucking a, a, usually a girl and porn. And that to them is like, okay, he made her squirt. So it was like all the, you know, big male ego and shit like that going on. And so, which I’m not saying that is a good thing or a bad thing, but you know, a lot of guys feel like if they can make a girl sport [00:28:00] come you know yeah.

For her pleasure, but he feels like, you know, the king of the world and everything like that. And so, so I’m feeling like they’re probably to have maybe a challenge or something like that.

Lola: well then it becomes an experience about them and the person is almost just a body. Like I had someone once that got me to the point of squirting, but then I also bled it didn’t feel good. So did they do a good job? You know, they’re really focused on getting this like end goal. And it’s okay sometimes to be goal-oriented, but we can’t be outcome oriented.

And the same thing with orgasming. You can’t make someone orgasm or squirt. You can have a really large role in that process, but if they don’t want to, or their body doesn’t want to, like it’s not going to happen. And I think we just need to rid ourselves of how much ego is rooted in sex and how we’re so tied to squirting and orgasming, because that [00:29:00] kind of, I hate that kind of pressure.

I hate that. Even as someone who scores a lot, there’s still pressure sometimes for me to sport. If my body’s not feeling that way or when there’s pressure for me to orgasm for someone else’s ego, when experience I’m going to fake it, are you kidding me? Yeah, I will. 

De’Vannon: No pressure people, it ain’t worth it 

Lola: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: bottom of our egos and things like that and learn how to just have a chill life. 

Lola: Yeah, 

De’Vannon: And so I’m just going to say three more things that are on the chart then to something else. So just people can come and go and look this up. as the chart moves on, you might have to see a, what does squirting say about me worksheet?

 You might have to see a unpack squirting and goals worksheet, and for the mess that she was talking about, that this can make earlier, there is a, a tip to invest in puppy pads, or just do it in the shower this flow chart. Like I said, all of this will be [00:30:00] website and everything will be in the the show notes.

And this is just so awesome. And I may have to see if I can get myself to squirt after we get off of this. Can. It’s different. It’s not the same process with people with penises. 

so is this different than like regular, like sperm flowing out this.

Lola: Yeah a court. I mean, according to Bobby box, who is a journalist, he did a lot more research on this with other scientists, which scientists don’t know everything. So it’s, it’s still, it’s not going to say it’s a hundred percent true, but according to his research, it’s mostly urine. But like through my research, it seems to be like a similar kind of experience.

And it’s very pleasurable. It’s a lot of fluid it’s posted Jackie elation usually. And how they’re able to do this is in a post ejaculated state, you would just kind of rub around like the pee hole flow around the urethra. Like very lightly and kind of just [00:31:00] like lightly holding the shaft. Is there going to be sensitive and it feels like a tickle.

And then there is a lot of fluid. 

De’Vannon: No shit.

Lola: I’ll send you the article. 

De’Vannon: Yeah. Send it to me. And I’ll throw that bitch in the show notes 

Lola: Okay. 

De’Vannon: Okay. So. Is there a way to like someone like make someone squirt, like what is the best way to do to someone does want to try? Is it through penetrative sex or would it be better a solo or a toy? I mean, body is different, but is there some sort of mechanism there?

Lola: I think that it is better to do it solo because then you’re not worried about another person. And also you don’t have this communication loop where you have to communicate, they have to understand and they have to do. And then that kind of goes back into this loop. If you’re by yourself, then all you have to do is communicate with yourself, which is a lot easier than another person.

And like kind of, there’s a lot of room for that to be broken. [00:32:00] So I think it’s easier to do by yourself. It is not necessary. To penetrate yourself and that’s really going to depend on personal preference. If you want like a sure fire way to being like, I want to know if I’m able to do it using a clip suckers or air pulsation ones that you put on your clitoral externally, these toys.

They, I like to say they, they give your body no chance, and it’s not going to work for everyone. But for a vast majority of people, you’re either going to have crazy pleasure. And a lot of the times people do end up squirting. And what I like about that is it’s not like you’re going to say, oh, this is the technique to do it, but it proves to you that your body can squirt and it can do it without penetration.

And. You know, a lot of what I suggest in my class is when you figure out, when you’re able to do that, you’re trying to, you know, replicate this sensation. Now, when you do it with this toy, you kind of go to zero to 60 real quick. So you’re not going to able to replicate that sensation, but at least that can teach you or show you, but it’s more a [00:33:00] function of making sure that you are in gorged.

 And that the, you know, 12 o’clock region of the vagina is in Gorge and that can be done through internal or external stimulation. And then it’s really a function of doing something that you really like, whatever that is, wherever that is, while you do muscle kind of engagement with your pelvic floor.

So that’s both contracting as well as elongation. And it’s more of a function of like figuring out how to get it out of your body. If you ever hear the slush slash sound inside of a vagina, that means like the squirt is there?

You just have to figure out how to get it out. And that tends to be, I think for people with Volvo’s holding things in all the time, you got to hold it in your heart and your queefs like because you’re a proper person.

I think it’d be, that becomes harder of that. Like letting go that release. [00:34:00]

De’Vannon: Okay. You have a very interesting way to describe BDSM bondage, discipline Sado. Masochism is what that acronym stands for. Now on your website, you say BDSM is a magical playground for its appliability to be tailored to each individual. Before you bust out the canes and nipple clams, finding your space within BDSM is not as simple as dawning a collar and seeing how it makes you feel while some may be lucky enough to have our kinky awakening solved with a strike of a crop.

Most BDSM has deep psychological components, including crop strikes. So can you explain to us how you feel about like a little bit more in depth about BDSM and why did you describe it as a magical playground? That’s what, that’s what really grabbed my attention.

Lola: I mean, cause I think of this, what I think of play-fighting and wrestling too. It’s not like we get [00:35:00] to tap into things we’re not allowed to in normal adult world, we kind of get to be kids again and play around. We get to, you know, if we were LARPers, we get to engage in fantasy and we get to create worlds.

We get to create things that don’t exist. We get to be people we are not allowed to be. We get to engage in things that are subversive. That’s kind of the nature of BDSM. So it is very much this like magical fantasy land where you can access things that you never thought possible. Why I spoke about it in this way?

Is it kind of like really grinds my gears? Whenever I read different articles, that’s just. We wanted to try piss place. So someone peed on me and I saw how it felt. Oh, do you want to try BDSM? Like spanking is a great place to start. No, and no spanking. Isn’t a great place to start because like, why are you going to start with pain?

Why is pain? And the thing too is when you’re doing something new, you already have novelty and novelty can be very exciting. And you’re going to confuse that with pain, which is something. You know, it was very dividing. I started out with, with spanking and BD and BDSM play, and I thought I liked [00:36:00] it, but I just liked novelty.

I don’t like pain at all. I just like attention.

 So it’s very confusing and I think that’s a really bad way to get into it. And with the piss play thing is like, you’re not, no one’s gonna like maybe for some people, but no, one’s going to pee on you and be like, oh my God, I’m into this. It is so deeply psychological.

And that has to be built for the piss play. So it’s not like you’re trying things and someone presses you with like an electoral wall and you’re like, oh my God, I love a lecturer play. Like, it’s not this process of try this thing. See if you like it, there is really a deep understanding to what am I drawn to?

What is my motivation? That’s why I have like a silly little quiz on my website. So you can at least have a first in clean and claiming into like, oh, I’m more into shame play or I’m more into like service. So you don’t start with pain.

De’Vannon: I had a dream. I don’t know. I don’t think I might’ve been like in middle school. It was a looked like may have been like the most, one of the most erotic, [00:37:00] what dreams the most that I’ve ever had. And I only had this sort of dream one time and it was about this. It was like this one guy was getting peed on by a bunch of other guys.

I don’t know where I got this from, know, Okay. I didn’t know that. So I hit me a pissed bang dream of paint, and I came so fucking hard in my, in my sleep. It was just like, kind of ridiculous. this was, you know, when I was growing up, there was no cell, you know, I couldn’t just go watch porn. You know, I had to like get Scrabble vision and see what I can glean from red shoe diaries and real sex and shit like that.

So there wasn’t anybody pissing on anybody on HBO or Showtime, at least not knows days. So I don’t know where in the holy fuck I got this dream from a Y I don’t know, maybe this is who I’m going to be one day.

Lola: Yeah. I mean, our imagination is always going to be better than porn, but a lot of these things. Sometimes if we watch them and we’re like, oh, that can trigger something. But a [00:38:00] lot of the time, these things are formed through different, know, subversions from our youth or our experiences. we can realize that that way, but it’s not going to be like, oh, I watched this on porn and now I’m into it.

So it’s the same that, that can trigger it and make you realize, oh wait, do I find this hot? But a lot of the times like the, the, has been set Well, before that, that wasn’t just maybe the stimuli you needed.

De’Vannon: Well, I’ll let you know if I ever get paid on or contribute to it happening. So can you explain to me the difference in between a kink and a fetish? Because I would have thought that they were kind of the same thing, but on your website, you have quite intricate breakdown of the two.

Lola: Yeah, and I, I have I have a bone. You can tell that it’s a theme. I have a bone to pick with a lot of different things that are written, but I have a bone to pick with the way a lot of people describe fetish. Because I think that it’s not because it’s not inclusive. And I think that it simplifies things and it was very orgasm focused because kink fetish, [00:39:00] BDSM, the beautiful thing is it doesn’t have to include orgasm.

 And that can be very inclusive for, you know, people that are ACE or a row or anything on the ACE spectrum as well. Or even people with disabilities and for that nature of what they can find enjoyable. So a kink is anything that is subversive in nature or something that you derive pleasure that is outside of the norm.

So that’s really vague. So anything can be a kink I’m really into. Do you know, like dressing up in a little girl costume and walking down the street, that that could be a kink for me or for someone else that could just be there Friday and it’s not kinky for them at all. So it really just depends on like the context of it.

Whereas a fetish in particular is something that is a bit more, particular or obsessive in nature. How people like to describe it as something that you require in order to orgasm, that is very orgasm [00:40:00] centric. It is not inclusive of all of fetish. So if you think of things. Are also wouldn’t otherwise be, but we make them sexual leather, latex, like those things aren’t inherently sexual, but that becomes something that someone pleasure from, whether that pleasure like, you know, sexual in nature, like resulting in orgasm.

But sometimes it could just be like getting that itch, scratch, getting that satisfaction of like, oh my God, I got to feel the latex. And now I, that is a satisfaction. Or I get to do this scene where I’m kidnapped and now I feel that release. for me, my fetishes are more just like subversive, but things that I’m like.

Healthily obsessed about where it’s just like, I have an intense fixation. I do not require them to orgasm. I do not require them to have a good time, but do I really like them? Fuck. Yes. And my fetishes are, I have a mustache fetish, does not mean every mustache. I see. I like, but there are ones I really like, and there are really good ones and I stare at them and I like [00:41:00] to play with them if I am permitted to play with them.

 And I have I have a massive case of penis envy, so my other fetishes holding people’s penises while they pee. And like, I just get very giddy. If it, if it is a person, usually it’s a person I’m intimate with it’s a level of intimacy and vulnerability. I’m not going to want to hold everyone’s penis while they pee.

But I really enjoy. Probably like, because it’s very intimate and vulnerable in nature, but I like watching my partner P I want to hold their penis while they pee. I don’t want to be peed on, I mean, I’ll, I’ll probably do it if it’s someone I really love, but I don’t derive pleasure from that. But like, I think it’s because that is such a private thing that they do and I get to be involved in it.

And I also get to, you know, tap into my penis envy and live it out a little bit. 

De’Vannon: I’m so happy you have a way to get your penis in beyond so that I just wouldn’t want that eating away with you, eating 

Lola: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I’m not like [00:42:00] I I’ve only engaged in it a couple of times. Cause it is a very intimate thing and I’m not going to ask a random person there. There has to be some probably the only I’ve done it with like three or four people, but it’s just like, and my, my boyfriend knows about it and I’ll just be like, what’s it like having a penis?

Just talk to me about it. Like. 

De’Vannon: That is so hot. Let me see here. So you also have on there the five most common kinks you say service image, validation, powerplay, shame, and novelty. And so I wanted to ask you is shame the same thing as humiliation. Are we talking about two different things there?

Lola: There are two different things. Humiliation is more a way of getting there, but I could, humiliation could be involved in of them. Humiliation could be involved in power-play could be involved in novelty, service image, all depending on it. So that’s just kind of a vehicle, shame is more around something like it’s so hot how wrong this is like, [00:43:00] that is so like taboo or not allowed.

Like, and, and 

De’Vannon: Uh, 

Lola: being able to either subvert that of like, oh, it’s hot, how we’re doing this wrong thing. Or it’s just like, I’m so gross and perverted in discussing that I’m doing this wrong thing. So it could be either way. So it could be on like the positive or negative side of that. But that’s the core of what you’re doing and why it is attractive to you. 

De’Vannon: Cause like, so what would you say to someone I had a lady one time I was talking to, and I think I mentioned humiliation or something like that. And she recalled and she was like, no, you to ever be humiliated. I just don’t agree with that. I don’t think that’s a right to do that to people.

I don’t have a problem with it. I think she was reading the wrong thing into it or are too much into it. So what would you say to somebody who may think like she did? And she was like, how dare you? know, humiliating, a person just sounds inhumane. do you.

Lola: So, this is actually how I got into BDSM and I will preface to say the majority of people are going to fit into [00:44:00] service oriented or image oriented. Like I would say a vast 80%. And then after. Like a bit less in shame and a bit less in power. But the person that got me into being dominant was really into verbal humiliation.

I was like, oh, but I like you, I don’t want to, I don’t want to be mean to you. I don’t want to do this or that. So I inquired to what it does for them. And why it is that they like it. Because if you.

want to make your person happy, like that can help a bit more to understand like, oh, this is what you’re getting out of it.

And also that’s where I can angle it more because there’s so many different types of humiliation. And in one spectrum, we could see humiliation as the ultimate form of warship. How willing are you to degrade yourself, to prove yourself, to me, of like how much you want to show that like. That you worship me in that sense, if you’re doing it for me, degrading yourself for me.

But some people like this person really liked to feel like really, really desperate. And they liked how [00:45:00] they felt like kind of more creative. They felt more alive, more energetic when they were in this mode of desperation. So, you know, if you don’t, if you are uncomfortable in giving the humiliation, I would say really humanize it and see where they’re coming from.

 And, and that can help to being like, oh, you want to feel this way? You like feeling this way, but there’s also some things that people aren’t going to be comfortable with. I had one kind of therapeutic fantasy. I wanted to live out where I had someone who I trusted and cared about. While they were fucking me.

I wanted them to like, say my worst insecurities and like confirm those. And I was like, do that until you’re done. Doesn’t matter if I come and then just hold me afterwards and don’t say anything until I engage in communication. And I asked like a friend and lover of mine and he was like, I am not comfortable doing that at all.

I was like, that’s very fair. This is pretty intense. So like, we don’t have to do these things for people. We love like, trust any of that, [00:46:00] like, because you know, it could be traumatizing for them occurred. It could not be fun for them, but you need to find a way for both people to buy into it, humanizing it and describing it may do that.

But also sometimes just got to accept that, like that’s fine or not right now.

De’Vannon: I heard that girl. So you mentioned the pelvic floor earlier, so you really have, I would say a bone to pick, it seems with cables and the way they’re being done wrong. Speak to me about cables and how are we supposed to be doing with them. Right. And why is this important for both genders?

Lola: Yep. So I started talking to pelvic floor therapists as I was my squirting series. Cause I wanted to first, I wanted to verify and validate things that were happening with my body and my pelvic floor with a therapist. But then I just started learning more from them and they’re fucking brilliant.

And also I was like, oh my God, our pelvic floor controls everything. Urination, deprecation, or. [00:47:00] Those are maybe the three most important things in our life. We’re doing at least two of those every day, sometimes three. So with, and like, honestly, this came mostly from the pelvic floor therapist and I’m just championing them.

But somehow they said like, Kaggle’s just had the best, like ever. And that became the thing. And whereas that can be something that is helpful or healing to certain vaginas, depending on what state, when we only focus on that, they’re seeing that go completely to the other end of the spectrum.

So having a hypertonic vagina. So contracted it can’t contract anymore. And that is another form dysfunction that can also result in incontinence. So the, I think the thought behind initially with Cagle exercises are, oh, you just had a child and your body changed or vagina changed. Do you not want to, you know, pee when you laugh or when you sneeze, then let’s do Cagle.

So we can, you know, work on the contraction and, you know, because [00:48:00] of this stigma and. Obsession with vagina tightness and virginity. And that whole complex, even though, you know, the vagina changes during sexual arousal, that’s where I think people call long to Cagle tighter, smaller contract and there’s weights for it.

And there’s different things you can put up to do that. And the obsession became so much. That’s the only thing we’re focused on. Whereas, you know, a pelvic floor is going to need to be able to relax and it’s going to need it to be able to elongate. It’s kind of like when you think of a muscle, like if I’m doing by, I’m not just doing one bicep where I’m curling my muscle, I need to be able to extend and straighten my elbow and straighten my arm.

Otherwise this isn’t going to be good the whole time. So we need to use all forms of that muscle. And I think, especially with squirting, sometimes we’re not aware when our pelvic floor is. Elongating when it’s relaxing when it’s contracting, or sometimes we’re only aware when it’s contracting. So part of this is having a [00:49:00] relationship with your Boba and a coordinated pelvic floor.

So you start to develop more understanding of the different states of your pelvic floor. And most people aren’t going to have a dysfunctional pelvic floor as well. I think people worry about that. Oh, is there something wrong with mine? You know, usually there’s going to be other symptoms, but what I’ve found is having a better relationship and understanding of my pelvic floor has led to me having more control or more of a say over my pleasure.

So I can do different things with my pelvic floor while I’m masturbating or while having sex. And I can actually have control or a say over my pleasure and my orgasm. I’m not, I’m not just sitting there like a starfish, like waiting for like, oh, I wonder if this is going to feel good or not. Like I can control that with my body too. 

De’Vannon: Right. And I’ve heard it said that, and I’m tried this myself that men can use cables to erections by light. 

Lola: it’s engaging with your prostate. That’s why 

De’Vannon: Right. So I think I read it in like a [00:50:00] GQ magazine or men’s health, probably something like that. posting like 10 or 20 times. I, you don’t want to overdo it, but know, the pulse for men can help to a harder Dick that works even better.

Lola: I think it’s less. Cause that’s still feels like do this thing to get this outcome, like an exercise. And I think it’s more. I understand how it works with you. So like, you know, first do it. So you understand, oh, this is what contracting feels like. This is what a long getting feels like. I encourage people while you’re masturbating, like, you know, your pelvic floor or do a Cagle where it kind of makes your, you know, your Dick do pushups, that and see how that changes your pleasure, try relaxing and then try elongating.

And it’s like, just see how it changes your pleasure. And then you’ll understand maybe where you want to use it in assist it, it’s not a function of, it needs to be. So you need to be lifting at least 20 pounds. If you want to experience the benefits, know, it’s just, it’s something where it’s just a tool that you can use and you need to learn how to use it, but you [00:51:00] have to, like, you need to learn how to pick up the weight.

You can’t just like whoop, you know, put it right up. You still have to figure out how this works. 

De’Vannon: Smart. Very fair. Okay. So you, you also have a list on your website of the best anal sex toys for all genders. And what I wanted to say about this is how I want to get your opinion on the pegging and just, I want it because I don’t know if the world really realizes just how much men who don’t identify as LGBTQ.

I a really liked to take it up the ass and you have a very Interesting photo in this section of the website. And it’s it’s like a Barbie doll laying on a bed, a dazzled strap on with a, you know, with a hard strap on knee strap on his Dick. And then this, this Kindle whose it was about the set on this big [00:52:00]and his hair already looks rough.

Like she’s already been fucking the shit out of him. And he’s about to straddle her in reverse. And he’s looking quite Druley as is this woman wearing this heart Dick. And so you talk to me about just how much men really liked to take it up the ass, who, who ain’t necessarily gay.

Lola: Yeah. Well, I want to address like, know, for what, for the stigma to do with a lot of internalized homophobia as well, but I think if you enjoy taking it, the, but that doesn’t mean you were part of the LGBTQ community. That doesn’t mean you identify a certain way because it is who you are attracted to.

I think a lot of people I hear saying like, oh, I’m, heteroflexible because I’m okay. If there’s another dude in the room, fucking it’s like that, that you’re, you can still be completely heterosexual and then, but you’re not threatened by another penis like that. Doesn’t make you kind of gay. You know, it’s about who are you [00:53:00] attracted to?

 Or where do you want to engage in even? Cause you can have a Dick in your mouth and not be gay because you want to engage in something. But that doesn’t mean you’re attracted to the person. Maybe it’s the situation. And so when it comes to anal pleasure, there is nothing particularly gay.

about that.

Unless maybe it is, you know, a man who is giving you the anal pleasure, but it’s enjoying a part of your body. Your butt is a part of your body that you’re enjoying. And it doesn’t matter if it is, you know, a dildo, you suck on the wall. If it is your wife or if it is like a non-binary person or whatever it may be.

So how you choose to identify as how you choose to identify? I would say. You know, if you have such a problem with like, what if this person thinks I’m gay or does this make me gay? That means you have internalized homophobia, but doesn’t mean you’re homophobic. That Just means there’s a lot of, you know, societal undoing that you’re going to have to engage in and figure out why is that so much of an issue?

Like if I was, [00:54:00] why am I worried about that? Is it because I’m worried about coming out to people, is it because I’m worried of what people will think and engaging in that? So the, you know, there’s a lot of harm in that of Juan. It’s just like, yo. Doesn’t have anything to do with sexuality, but also what is your issue with sexuality?

And I, I think that’s why this, like, you know, peg the patriarchy term. It’s not like a fuck you to the patriarchy thing, but I do think a lot of people are able to maybe start unraveling this internalized homophobia and this relationship with the patriarchy when they’re able to either experience anal pleasure or just have something up their butt and being like, oh, the world didn’t change.

Oh, I didn’t suddenly decide. I want to fuck men. Oh my, like, I still love my wife. Like, yeah. It’s just the butthole.

De’Vannon: Just to break it all down. The summit of is just an asshole. Y’all get over it into it.

 And so, mean, I could give [00:55:00] you another handclap on that breakdown because I felt like that one sermon right there, you’ve been to get that out. I’m glad you’re able to get that out. 

Lola: Thank you. It’s all. Good. 

De’Vannon: We just have two more things I wanted to talk about that I will give you the last word my dear. So there’s an article title.

Why gender expanse, expansive and inclusive language is important in heteronormative spaces. I’m going to read a blurb there. I love how open-minded you are super thorough, you know, when you’re writing and breakdown, bitch. Yes. 

Lola: you. 

De’Vannon: Then it’s quoting Ms. Misload. If you’re, if you’re heterosexual, which means attractive to individuals of the opposing gender or cisgender, which means identify as the gender you were assigned at birth, you might not notice if a space is catered to, to non-hetero or non-system people, because most spaces will cater to you.

Tell me [00:56:00] why this is important.

Lola: Well, if you couldn’t guess it, this started because I had a bone to pick. I was just seeing like a lot of spaces. You know, continuously catering in this language and their excuse being like, well, we don’t have any trans people here, or we don’t have any queer people here, which firstly is like, you don’t know, because also it sounds like you haven’t made your space safe enough for people to either question that.

And then it also becomes gatekeeping for someone just like, well, I don’t feel straight enough or I don’t feel queer enough. And it’s not a, a function of, you know, I ended up getting a lot of pushback of this being pushed back from like CIS or, you know, hetero people that were like, oh, why do we have to say, you know, they, them are people with Boba is, and you know, it’s like, what is, what does it do to you?

Oh, it’s just like a mild inconvenience in your day versus invalidating both their [00:57:00] entire persona and being, and also preventing people from the opportunity to question. They’re on sexuality or gender or what they’re accepting of and beginning to normalize that. And I think that was the biggest thing is like I needed people to see of like, why are we fighting this?

What does it do to you? How does it change your day? And it was something I just wanted to create. A template for a lot of spaces that, you know, even this was one that, that I wrote it for, that I feel like is very still heteronormative. And I only see fems and femme bodies being sexualized. And I was like, Hey, it’d be really cool.

If the mass bodies were also sexualized and I’m like, oh, but none of the people with mass bodies us pictures to sexualize. It’s like, yeah. Why do you think that is like, if something isn’t happening, it has to do with the organization. And that’s a lot of my philosophy is like, if people aren’t behaving the way that I want to, or they’re not engaging in something the [00:58:00] way I want them to that means I’ve done something wrong.

You know, if someone I work for, isn’t giving me what I need, I briefed them wrong. we need to be able to set people up for success. And that responsibility largely falls on these spaces on these brands that have to set a foundation that people, you know, Survive within and, and interact within. And I think a lot of it may even fall down to a customer service model of like, but when we did this and when we use gender inclusive language people, they didn’t like it.

So we need to go back. It’s like, well, why are we doing things? So people like them, why aren’t we just creating the things that we want to see? And having people adjust to it. If I created all of my works that people liked it, I maybe wouldn’t be making accurate work. I wouldn’t be making work that was inclusive.

Maybe I would be work. That was like, it was excluding people and their experiences. So it’s just really not serving. But I think the, the moral of the story is like, if the, if using gender exclusive language [00:59:00] or not using inclusive language, it’s a mild inconvenience to you. At the end of the day, it is a minimal effort you can make and versus to a queer person or to a non CIS person that.

It’s invalidating. And I think we can even like parallel it also to a white people to white CIS men as well to, into, into white CIS women you know, the majority of space is like, things are made for you. So when you’re like, oh, I’m a little inconvenience. Cool. Everyone else is always in convenience.

This is a one time at one time you were in convenience, but you were not used to it. So you’re like And, and I that’s like a lot of what I’m seeing pushback, especially from other white people is just like this isn’t fair. It’s like, oh, it’s not, oh, it’s not fair for You It’s not fair for you to do. Wow.

De’Vannon: You know, what, how did they say, you know, you can’t take your own [01:00:00]medicine kind of thing. You know, you, well, Hey, at least you’re open-minded. And so, and I’m sure 

Lola: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: a lot of people in your day and time to become more open minded to that. Sometimes people just need to get challenged.

Lola: Yeah. And it’s the thing that I know that I guess myself as a white I guess, I guess this person, I dunno, I’m like, I feel like I’m more in like the age, gender spectrum. Cause I don’t really identify with a particular gender. But I don’t really care either. Like I don’t feel non-binary, but I’m like, I don’t feel like a woman, but I don’t feel like a man, but I don’t feel like non-binary I’m happy with my Volvo.

I don’t want a penis, but I really like them and I like to pretend I have them. But I, but it’s not that I don’t feel, you know, included or I don’t feel like I identify with my vulva. But I think specifically because of that, I’m at least cyst presenting and I’m white. That it’s also on me and like, I can, I have a lot [01:01:00] more patients and not everyone can afford that.

And I think there is, there’s always a lot of pushback of when I may be educating people or even working through stuff myself as well. Cause I will always be, but it’s the patients that’s, that’s, what’s really needed for people to come around. It’s like, I’m still here. I will still help you work through this.

 Unless you do something that really pisses me off or that pushes back, but the patients is a really big key to that. And unfortunately, and I got a lot of it. 

De’Vannon: I mean, if you, if you really want a Dick and this day in time, you can really go buy wine. You can totally make, make the change happen.

Lola: Oh, I got it. I got a whole drawer of when baby. 

De’Vannon: No surgery needed. I’ll just go strap this on real quick. Now guys, you do, you actually look like kind of like a mixed to me. Like, I wouldn’t have thought maybe a little Jewish, a little Italian, especially being in New York, you

Lola: I [01:02:00] am. I am Jew. I am like a hundred percent Jewish. But I also have a bone to pick Jewish people are white I’m I don’t want to hear any of that Jewish people are not white. Like, you know?

 Because especially when you think of like white privilege and disenfranchisement, like what people of Jewish descent, like, I’m not saying you don’t face antisemitism, but like, how has that changed your, your privilege, your wealth, your opportunities, all of that in the long-term not the same.

Not the same. Yeah. 

De’Vannon: I feel you on that.

Lola: It feels like a cop out. I don’t like it. 

De’Vannon: That’s pretty bad ass. Never heard anyone break it down quite like that before.

Lola: I was going on a rant about this yesterday. And it’s like, it’s, it’s something that I started seeing a lot more with more people of color and black folks like talking about privilege. And it just seems like Jews were just like, but [01:03:00] not us. Right? Because we were slaves wanting to play. No, no, no, not the same, not the same different thing. 

De’Vannon: Well, you heard it from one of your Jewish comrades. I just keep my mouth shut on that boy. They do beautiful skin. I don’t know. It looks kind of all of the, in everything. Very beautiful eyes. And so I’m not, I’m not hitting on her. Y’all I love me nothing more than some that deck, but I appreciate the beauty of women.

So Mike buy a pair of your shoes one day. I love me some Hills. So the last thing I want you to talk about has to do with sex positivity. I’m going to read this, say a little something and let you break it down and preach as you do. So being sex positive and I’m quoting a low of the website. Again, being sex positive is more than just yay sex.

Lola: Okay. 

De’Vannon: positive attitudes about sex and [01:04:00] feeling comfortable with one’s own sexual identity and or with the sexual behaviors of others. So now what stood out to me here are two things with the sex positivity being more than just gay sex, because I know people who they’re like, yeah, I’m sex positive, which translates to Omaha.

So it doesn’t matter how many people I sleep with. I’m not going to be shamed for being, for being a slut because I am sex positive. And no one’s going to make me feel bad about all of the sex that I’m having. And then the other is the portion of this is the feeling comfortable with one’s own sexual identity.

I’ve talked to people. And they’re all sex positives, you know, sleeping around, doing all they want to do. sure God, I can’t judge you, but at the same time, they are not fully comfortable with who they are. Maybe not fully comfortable with their body. And so I was so happy that you had this written [01:05:00] here.

Can you talk to me further about this here in between yay sex. And I don’t even really fully accept myself, but I’m having all this sex.

Lola: Yeah. And I, I mean, I will preface to say that, like, it’s, it’s always going to be a journey to accepting yourself and just like sex positivity can always be a journey. There can always still be things that we are undoing and it’s not like, you know, a stick we can put in the sand. But being able to have all the sex you have and not be slut-shamed and be at home, that’s a part of sex positivity.

It’s just not the only part that is one bit under the umbrella. And I think so I’m a brand ambassador for field, which is a sex positive dating app. And I’ve been using that thing for five, six years. I met my current partner in there. I met a lot of friends, lovers, all the things on there before it became a brand ambassador, but I would see this a lot on there of like, oh yeah, I’m sex positive and open-minded, but it would still fit under a like heteronormative patriarchal type of.

[01:06:00] Role where it’s like, oh yeah, I’m sex positive. And open-minded, if it’s just me with a bunch of women and there’s no other penises involved but the thing you want to do is weird. It’s like, well, then you’re not, you’re only sex positive about your own things. That’s not necessarily of sex. Positivity is being okay with the way that anyone, including yourself and other people chooses to express themselves or engage like nothing is gross or wrong.

That is your opinion. You are projecting. You think it’s gross wrong because of shit you got to unpack or whatever that may be. And you don’t have to engage with everyone. You don’t have to project your views on everyone. If someone likes something and you don’t want to do it, and maybe they like you, then don’t do the thing with them.

Or if you don’t like them, don’t do anything with them. So it’s, you know, everything. Everything is fine and can exist. And we don’t have to project that anything is wrong or gross as long as it is, you know, risk aware, safe, consensual, sane rack, prick, SSE, all of these different acronyms that we use in [01:07:00] BDSM as well.

 Too, because you know, there are things that might be morally or ethically wrong. So it’s not to say that every way people express themselves sexually, but I think sex positivity has to do more with how we treat others. Versus how we treat ourselves because how we treat others is also a projection of how we treat ourselves.

If I think that you being into put in feet up your butt is gross. And I start telling people that you’re a weirdo and a pervert because of that, that probably means I have some stuff I need to unpack with, you know, my opinions of other people. So the best way to practice sex positivity on to ourselves is to practice it on to others and to, you know, be objective and be okay of, oh, you’re into this thing.

Tell me about it. Oh, it’s not for me, but cool that you have your thing. I really don’t understand that at all but I also don’t need. And that’s okay. It’s really the end of the day. It’s just, and that’s okay. And not shaming other people [01:08:00] because you know, there are a bunch of places that we get our shame from.

It could be society, it could be other people, it could be ourselves. if we can just eliminate at least one more of those like that, that can be helpful to others. Cause that’s a lot of the times we’re just afraid of what people will think at the end of the day. And. Yeah, I think, I think it really has to do a lot more with sex.

Positivity is or behavior with others rather than our relationship with ourselves, because that can take time and time to heal. But if we heal it with others, it’s often that projection that’ll and appealing something within ourselves to cause there, you know, the reason that you’re having a hard time accepting that like I’m bisexual or I’m trans or non-binary or any of these things might have to do with of like, what will other people think if I think this what is that going to change in my relationships?

And like that, that can be very difficult and that can take time. And especially if there’s a lot of social undoing as well or something that you’re [01:09:00] fighting. So. It’s a journey. It’s a journey to being sex.

positive. And the more you practice it, the better you get at it, the more You practice you’re into this thing, I’m not, but that’s cool.

Then, you know, you begin to humanize everything. One of my best friends specializes in like toilet training and poop sessions and things like that. And I love to hear it now and I didn’t get it at first, but now I’m just like, tell me the story. I’m never going to do any of this stuff. Like even like, honestly, I was hearing about a food play session.

She did something with pumpkin pie and I was in like bananas. And I was like, that actually sounds a lot grosser than poop. And that sounds disgusting, but I still want to hear about it.

De’Vannon: You know, what the hell can’t you do? There is a market for everything.

Lola: There is. If you can think of it, it’s a king probably. 

De’Vannon: Oh yeah. Oh my God. Okay. I’m going to say this here, then. I’m gonna let you have the last word, man. You can say whatever you want to the [01:10:00] world, but when you said that you can think of it as a king. I was reading in a, I think like. Playboy or penthouse magazine years ago. And they had this list of like this kinky fetishy shit.

Some people had, didn’t done. One guy liked to step on bugs and he would come really hard from the squish of the insects. And then this other poor guy, you know, he died unfortunately, but he liked to go out into the woods and get a tree branches and stick them up his ass. And so, unfortunately, one time like a poisonous spider had laid eggs and tree branches.

And when he, after he hadn’t got done pleasuring himself with the tree branch, the spider eggs were left in his anal canal, his heat and incubated the eggs fast. And when the spiders were born, they bit him in the ass and then he died. So that was just reminded of that. And then with that, anything you’d like to save my data.

Lola: Well, I’m [01:11:00] not, and that’s the thing was safe, sane, and consensual is that, you know, safe and sane might have been things that were left out of this, honestly like sticking, sticking the, you know, right. Stick up your butt with proper protection and, and cleanliness you know, nothing, it’s not going to be sterile.

You can’t really make a stick sterile. But like that could be fine, but you know, there’s a couple things left out in that too. And that’s not to say that, you know, he’s a sick freak for doing that and he just, wasn’t smart. 

De’Vannon: Maybe he just, he, maybe wasn’t in the community. Didn’t have training.

Lola: Yeah, exactly. And that’s the thing is if we have, if we start either normalizing or at least you stigmatizing, and then we create community, you know, a lot of things can be avoided or unsafe situations. I hear I’ve actually been hearing a lot about a lot of like celebrities lately and it’s like, yeah, where are they going to learn?

Because they’re celebrities. So they can’t go to your average, [01:12:00] like BDSM class. And, you know, there’s probably going to be a certain amount of shame involved in that due to the power dynamic that they already have. So it’s, you know, they’re, so they’re practicing things, really unsafely and like how, how would they know, you know It becomes a little, a little complicated.

So I guess for my closing line of where you can find out more about me as well, is I, my website is Lola jean.com. I social media, both Twitter and Instagram as Lola jean.com with the DOT spelled out, I have a variety of options of ways you can consume my content. Some of it is free. Some of it is paid. Some of it is donation based and sometimes it is live in a city near you.

 so there’s plenty of ways that you can, can choose to engage in this, including I have a couple of free classes some more free offerings that are on the way, but, you know, take, take the quiz, see what kind of kinky you are and looking at. And [01:13:00] understand when you might be projecting and where there might be an opinion of yours that is more personal, that you might have to unpack and get comfortable being uncomfortable.

Uncomfortable is not the same thing as safety uncomfortable is where you’re going to have growth. It’s where you’re going to learn. So we’re going to be sex positive, and it’s where you’re probably going to ultimately be happier and powerful. 

De’Vannon: Amen. Amen. And amen. This one goes out to all the freaks would be freaks and open-mind deep will start in their sexual journeys in the world.

Lola: Love it. 

De’Vannon: Thank you so much for coming on the show today. If 

Lola: Yeah, absolutely.

De’Vannon: Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and [01:14:00] resources at SexDrugsAndJesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.

My name is De’Vannon and it’s been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is going to be all right.

 

 

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