Meagan O’Nan is an award-winning author, keynote speaker, and vulnerable storytelling expert. She is the author of the award-winning book, “Creating Your Heaven on Earth,” and “Courage: Agreeing to Disagree Is Not Enough.” Her third book is forthcoming and will be published in January 2023 with New Degree Press. Meagan is also a member of the Forbes Coaches Council where she produces regular content for Forbes.com.
Meagan has spoken to thousands of people at live events since 2008, including alongside internationally recognized spiritual leaders such as don Miguel Ruiz, author of the best-selling book, “The Four Agreements,” and she has appeared multiple times in local and national media. Meagan even received a personal note from Desmond Tutu after hearing a talk of hers on forgiveness.
Meagan is passionate about creating deeper connections through speaking, workshops, and through her executive speaker coaching. Her approach is unique in that she uses storytelling as a way to overcome differences and generate healing. For the last decade, she has been a significant voice for the LGBTQ community in Mississippi, speaking with pastors, university representatives and classes, on the radio, and on the news as a voice offering unity and cooperation. Meagan now lives with her wife, Clare, and their daughter, Merit, in Starkville, Mississippi.
INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):
· The Pain Of Being Outed By The Fellowship Of Christian Athletes
· Why Agreeing To Disagree Is Absolutely Not Enough
· Preacher’s Books Are Regurgitated Sermons
· Losing Spiritual Community
· God Is Against Oppression
· My Lakewood Church Experience
· Churches Do Low Key Conversion Therapy
· The Common Sense Of The Ten Commandments
· Meagan’s LGBTQIA+ Advocacy
· TELL YOUR STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CONNECT WITH MEAGAN:
Website & Books: https://www.meaganonan.com/
CONNECT WITH DE’VANNON:
· Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)
o TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs
· OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)
· Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)
· Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levin
· Upwork: https://www.upwork.com
· FreeUp: https://freeup.net
VETERAN’S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS
· Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org
· American Legion: https://www.legion.org
· What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg
INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?:
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You’re listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De’Vannon and I’ll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what’s really going on in your life.
There is nothing off the table and we’ve got a lot to talk about. So let’s dive right into this episode.
De’Vannon: Hello, everyone. Welcome the episode. Number 66 of the sex drugs in Jesus podcast. God bless each and every one of you today I have with me, the esteemed Megan Onan. She’s an author. She’s a speaker. She’s an executive speaker coach. She’s doing all the things. Her website, MeaganOnan.com is a kick ass resource.
And I highly recommend it. She has a hot memoir coming [00:01:00] out in a few months. And in this episode, we’re gonna be previewing some of this content. This woman has quite an impactful story of dealing with her own personal queer history and being outed by the fellowship of Christian athletes. When she was in college in Mississippi, grab a fan girl and get ready to clutch your pearls.
Because this one has a lot of jaw dropping moments.
Hello? All my lovely ladies, men gentlemen, non-binary transgendered, two spirit lesbian, gay bisexuality. Say that pansexual. Demisexual all people out there. My bears, my odds, my Cubs. I’ll see you in San Francisco for, for awesome street. Fair. I hope. Welcome to the sex drugs in Jesus podcast today. I’ve got [00:02:00] Megan Onan.
Hopefully I said your last name, right? You is it Onan or, oh Nan.
Meagan: Oh, N whatever, you know, I’m open
De’Vannon: oh yeah. Megan is open y’all. So I have her with me today. What are your pronouns? She and her. Okay. She and her, when everyone knows I’m, whatever the fuck you wanna call me, whatever I’m at that moment in time is what you need to say.
And so , she’s an author, the storytelling and speaker, coach. That’s one I never heard before. And a keynote speaker. How you doing today, girl?
Meagan: I’m good. You’re making me smile and making me happy. I’ve actually, I’ve been editing a a TEDx talk all morning, so I’m like, I need some, some relief here. I need, I need some interaction, so
De’Vannon: happy to be here.
We’re gonna interact the fuck out of each other day. So I’m so you know, you, are you a [00:03:00]woman who identifies as gay, you know, part of the non-straight world, right? You power, you have influence you stand up tall and you speak what you have to say. And it’s interesting because. A major thing that I found when I was researching you, is that you’re saying you’re not actually trying to like change people’s minds, you know, with a lot of the work that you’re doing and everything like that, you know?
Yeah. You, you’re using your vulnerability, you know, to educate and affect change in a, in a directly, but yet indirectly. And so, and so in this show, we’re gonna talk a lot about your coming out stories. You came out when you were young then, so there was some time and then you get outed when you’re in college.
And we all know how rude that is, you know, for that to happen to people, you know, in the mix of all this, you know, you know, you’re, you, you know, you know, you’re struggling back and forth with like your family, what they think and, you know, society and everything like that. And [00:04:00] yeah, and I found so many things from within the reading that I really wanted to pick apart.
So that you can help me understand, because I don’t have a coming out story because I didn’t. So as we were discussing before I matched that record button, you know, you know, we both have like chaotic families. I drifted attached detached from mine. And then I went to the military when I was 17. So by the time that I decided, or, I mean, I always was not straight, but, but before, before it would matter, I, you know, I had a government salary and everything like that.
And I just, the order, I got the less of a fuck I gave about what the fuck my family thought. Yeah. Yeah. But I know that this is not the case for everyone. And so during this interview, I hope that you can help me understand. Why people put so much stock in their family. So we are going to be talking about this, this new book that you have [00:05:00] coming out called, held and free.
Mm-hmm , that’s gonna form the, the core information where I, where I’m gonna be pulling from. So, what would you like to tell us about you, like your history, your life, favorite color, whatever
Meagan: my favorite color is blue . No, I, I was raised in, in Mississippi and Starkville, Mississippi, which is where Mississippi state university is and was raised Catholic and being Catholic actually here in Starkville was the weird thing because you’re supposed to be Baptist in Mississippi.
And so I already grew up in a way that I always felt a little bit different anyway, and then I never felt like I really fit into the Catholic church because I didn’t understand why women couldn’t be in leadership. And I had a hard time understanding this concept of. Not being worthy of God’s love.
And so I was always questioning things and, and, and going to my [00:06:00] mom and saying like, I don’t understand this. And she really didn’t have good answers for me because she was just, you know, going along the path that had been set before her as well. And so I was always this curious kid. I was the one that, that my parents, they just weren’t sure what to do with me really.
And I grew up as an athlete and then eventually realized during my college tenure that, that I was gay, actually, I didn’t know, as a young child, I knew looking back, like I had crushes on women and like, it was all there. I just didn’t have context for it because I wasn’t around people who were openly gay.
And I, I had never been around that in my family. And so there was no context for me to know that I could be that. And so when I got to college, obviously that changed and I really found myself and then I was. I was, I was outed by the fellowship of Christian athletes community at Mississippi state and kind of had this whole tumultuous journey of my spiritual community dis owning me.
[00:07:00] And then at the same time, going through this really tough time with my family of them, trying to understand, you know, like who I was and who I had been and trying to make all that work. So it was a really difficult process for, for everyone, especially me, where I just felt alone. I didn’t feel like I had anyone to just like, hold my hand and walk me through that process.
And so I ended up leaving Mississippi for a long time and I just needed to find myself I needed to get outside of the pressure of being here and society and culture here. And this was in 2005 when I left. And then I was gone for six years before I decided to come back. And the reason I came back was because I felt like I wanted to make a difference.
Initially. That’s kind of what drove me back. And then once I got here, I realized, oh wait, no, I don’t love myself. You know, I, I [00:08:00] need to be able to stand in my truth and figure out who I am and be okay with who I am. And so it’s been this journey the last 12 years. I’m still in Mississippi married and have a three year old now, but the journey has really been about like being okay with me and getting to this place of wholeness and building this foundation of wholeness for me spiritually and as a person.
And so it’s, it’s just been like this kind of voyage in return journey and just this whole self discovery process for me and just really trying to love myself and be okay with it.
De’Vannon: Well, his mama Rupa would say, girls, if you can’t love yourself, hi in the hell. You gonna love anybody else. Absolutely.
Meagan: absolutely a hundred percent agree. Did
De’Vannon: God bless you for coming back to Missy fucking sip? I was stationed out there when I was in the air force at Keith swear air force base. That is on backwards as, as they say a bass. [00:09:00] Stayed, you know, I’m right over here in Louisiana. It’s not like it’s that much fucking difference.
right. Yeah know. So, but everyone knows I’m headed back out to Los Angeles. I just need to get really rich first so that a bitch can maintain her lifestyle. . So now this book held and free is gonna be your third book right now. You’re like Megan onin.com, which of course will go in the showy notes. I suggest everyone to check it out.
She looks really cute on all her videos and everything. And girl, I love your hair that flip. Oh, well thank you, yachts. And so the first book is called creating your heaven on earth, UN unveiling, the truth that was always there. And the second one is called courage. Agreeing that disagree is not. That sounds like the thing for the resistance
Meagan: oh man. Yeah. There’s a story behind each one. So can you give us just
De’Vannon: a quick [00:10:00] little, you know, minute about each of those books? Just a little, yeah.
Meagan: Yeah, for sure. And kind of the backstory is why they were created too, is, you know, when I wrote that first one, creating your heaven on earth, I was in a really bad, emotionally abusive relationship.
And I would spend my evenings down in my basement, writing that book. And to me it felt like a colleague forth. Like I knew a good life was possible and I knew I could be happy, but it was like my, my way of just writing myself out of that relationship and moving on because it got published. It got picked up pretty quickly.
And after it got picked up, my girlfriend at the time got really upset with the success. And so it was kind of like this messed up dynamic, but it’s what propelled me into leaving the relationship and then propelled me forward into my career. So it was kind of like this thing. That gave me the opportunity to move on.
So it was much more than it’s what I knew deep down. So the creating your [00:11:00] heaven on earth is, is about like concepts and beliefs that I believe are true spiritually. So, and then courage agreeing to disagree is not enough that one was published in 2014. I think we all can remember what was going on in 2014, 2015 around gay marriage becoming legal and just the whole discussion.
Equal rights. And for LGBTQ plus people, and I was just really tired of the, Hey, let’s disagree to disagree because it really doesn’t get us anywhere. And I wanted to have conversations that were meaningful. And so I wrote this book from that place of just wanting deeper connection with others and trying to find a bridge between our worlds.
And so this was really a calling forth of like, Hey, you know, like agreeing to disagree is not gonna get us anywhere. We’ve gotta, we’ve gotta come to the table. We’ve gotta talk. We’ve gotta have conversations. So then held in free. We’ll be [00:12:00] out in January and it’s my memoir. And I’m just digging in to the whole story.
You’ve seen some of it. So ,
De’Vannon: mm-hmm thank you for that sneak peek girl. They sent me over an advanced copy and you know, I’m a privileged bitch to deal with it. And so , and I love me a good memoir because one thing that’s really important to me. A part of this ire I take from having had been in the church, you know, in the church, these pastors, and I mean the word, and I say the word pastor loosely, I don’t believe they’re all pastors and preachers, but you know, what the fuck else do they call themselves?
You know, they’re always cranking out these books left and writing everything like that. And eventually it occurred to me that first of all, most of these books are like regurgitated sermons. You know, they write little mini talks, right. You know, every week call them sermons. And eventually they compile them into a book and then put a different cover on it.
Right. And so but it occurred to me that [00:13:00] those, those preachers don’t really write memoirs. You know, they don’t actually give you the dirty Drows and tell you the, the really, really nasty shit about themselves, you know? Yeah. They not really super transparent people. And so I begin to think about this and they’re like, you know what.
I want memoir. I want more memoirs from people, you know, I want people to, you know, there’s so many people who are speaking and coaching and everything like that. Yeah. And the, which is great and very helpful. But for me, I wanna know who are you? Yeah. You know, give me that shed. And so I’m so glad that, and you were, and I can hear that you put your personal stories in your previous two books, but I’m just gonna say, I’m glad that you gave us the full memoir, you know?
Meagan: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s, and it’s been a battle to put, there’s a lot of stories you haven’t read that are become, I was very vulnerable in a lot of, you know, especially that emotionally abusive [00:14:00] relationship and some other stories in there that I really didn’t wanna put in there. And I’ve battled back and forth about changing it to a self-help, but I have ultimately decided that the best way.
For my own healing and to actually teach is to just tell the stories as they are. And I mean, that’s how we learn best. I’ve seen it in my own work with other speakers that I work with. Like I learned the most from hearing your stories and I wanna hear people’s true and vulnerable stories as they are and how you experience them.
So I totally agree
De’Vannon: with you. See, that’s how you know, you’ve got good shit in your book because when you’re, when you’re like struggling with, Ooh, I wonder if I should keep that in there. Am I really gonna say that? Oh, maybe I should take it out. Every time I came across that when I was writing mine, I was like, Nope, I wanna force myself to leave it in there just because I’m having so much toil about whether or not I should say it exactly.
Meagan: yep. Yep. And by the way, your book is excellent. I’m not, I haven’t finished it yet. I’ve gotten through the [00:15:00] first few chapters, but woo. What a setup, lemme tell you that.
De’Vannon: Well, thank you very much. You’ve been through a lot. it’s going around honey, but but thank you very, very, very much for that compliment.
So mm-hmm so one of the lines and I’m, I’m, I’m gonna be reading a few excerpts from your book because I, I was very impressed with them. So I wanna talk about, as you stated, why you wrote it, but I thought this, this was so cool. The way that you wrote this, now I know. And a part of it, what was, I was reading, she was talking about like your grandmother, her husband, your grandfather, one day, some bitch shows up on the step with this kid claiming it’s your grand pappies.
It was apparently your grandpa was out. Your Grandy was out there slinging that Dick, you know, all over town, getting bitches pregnant. And this is how that shit goes down. But in your, in your description of this. You were saying like your grandmother felt victim [00:16:00] her, her mindset fell victim to the circumstances.
Right. And I thought that that was such a, a catchall phrase. I really felt like you CED. And that happens since us in so many different scenarios. Be it abuse relationships, our mindsets, fall victim to the circumstances. Yeah. Coming out and the way people react, our mindsets fall victim to the circumstances.
Absolutely. Tell me what fueled you to write this particular line?
Meagan: It just writing the memoir made me think about where I came from. And I think we have to think about where we come from to know who we are and because of her mindset and because of that generation where women were more repressed than they are now well, I don’t say that anymore, but where they didn’t know how to use their voices.
They didn’t know how to speak up for themselves. Like she was a product of her generation that the man was in charge of the household [00:17:00] and she was to go along with whatever that was. And that’s where I come from. You know, like I’ve had to learn to use my voice, my mom, for me, growing up, we didn’t talk about things.
We didn’t talk about hard things. I never knew how to articulate what I was feeling. I had learned how to write things down on my own, but it was a very lonely world that I lived in. So until I came out and started actually, you know, owning who I was. I had to teach myself how to not fall victim to my circumstances, by claiming myself and claiming my power and saying, this is who I am and putting myself out there and having those hard conversations.
But I had to learn it on my own. I wasn’t taught that at all. And so it’s helped me accept and understand how I was raised and a part of me that wants to be silent. You know, it’s like that constant back and forth of like, [00:18:00] should I speak up? You know, and then there’s the other part of me’s like, yes, speak up.
And so I think having that balance and knowing, and being aware of, of who I am, where I come from has helped me go beyond that and, and speak up and use my voice now in a way that works for me. So to me, I mean, and I think that’s all about, you know, reflecting on your story and where you come from. I think it’s just super important for anybody to go back and, and think about the, the generations before us and what they had to deal with, because it’s, it’s a part of who we are.
De’Vannon: So I suppose the counter, the counter intuition to letting your mindset fall victim to the circumstance would be to mind over matter.
Meagan: Yeah. Well, and it’s also like discovering who I am that I am not that, you know what I mean? I am. I am, I have a voice and I have things to say, and it [00:19:00] will crush me if I don’t say them, you know, and I don’t wanna suffer.
I don’t wanna be bitter. I don’t wanna have resentment. Like I’ve seen, you know, some of these generations before half, I don’t want that. I don’t, I wanna be happy when I die. You know, like I wanna have joy in my life. And if I’m not out there being honest about myself and being vulnerable, then what is there?
You know, like I just wanna put it all, all out on the
De’Vannon: table. Right. I agree. Like as problematic as my family is, I, you know, I always say, I couldn’t really learn from them how to be, but I have learned from them how not to be. Right. And you know, in your book, you were talking about how granny was running around, looking miserable and shit.
And that, that, that, that that’s who you’re talking about right now, you saw that bitterness in her and how weighed her down because she wasn’t. She didn’t feel like she could change anything. She didn’t use her voice and you’re like, damnit, I’m not gonna be like her. .
Meagan: Yeah, it really bothered me. I mean, I remember having conversations with her when [00:20:00] I was load on like, Hey, you know, like, are you gonna get over this?
Are you gonna move on? Are you gonna be happy? And you know, it really irked me as a child. I mean, I saw it, but you know, she didn’t know how to get out of it cuz she, she just didn’t, she didn’t have the tools.
De’Vannon: I’m a side step for just a moment. This weekend I watched on Netflix, the keep sweep, pray and obey documentary that covers the latter day saints debacle with the Jeff’s guy.
I think his name was who had all the women and stuff under their command and control. And many of their mindsets fell victim to the circumstance. Some of them broke free. Some of them have not. So keep sweet, pray and obey. It’s four episodes. And Netflix, isn’t paying me to say this, but they just have like really good fucking documentaries lately.
Yeah. so I’ll have to check that out. That one’s all about the oppression of women and God gone.
Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. There’s still much of that going on, obviously. So. [00:21:00]
De’Vannon: Yeah. And we’re, and that that’s us throwing shade at you, the Supreme court and especially Texas. Ugh. And so in the book you say that you wanna be the rep, the representation that you needed when you came out, not just for those who are like me, but also for those who want to understand people who were not like them break down for me, how you’re, you’re towing this line in between dealing with close minded, hardheaded people, which, which is, which is how I’m going to describe them.
You’re saying people who are not like you, and then , you know, and then people who are vulnerable and suffering
Meagan: for, I mean, it kind of goes back to that. What we were just talking about is just. Being open and being a voice, you know, being that representation and letting my community know that I’m here, you know, you’re not alone.
I have a family, we’re my wife and I are very, very [00:22:00] out and have been for years. We have businesses. We have a little girl, the whole school knows we go, when we talk to our teachers, I’m like we’re out and open and everybody knows it. So being that representation to me is super important. And just being honest about who we are, and then the other side of that is you, I think it just goes back to, to who I am and.
I’ve discovered this along the way of just trying to find a way to bridge that gap between myself and the people who think being gay is wrong or think gay marriage is wrong. And because I’m surrounded or have been surrounded by them in my upbringing. Right. So I had defined a way if I was gonna live in this community to be okay with them as they are, but also find a way to be myself and be okay with that too.
And it’s a really fine [00:23:00] line to balance.
De’Vannon: And look, y’all just for a perspective, Mississippi, ain’t like the gayest place in all the nine realms or anything like that, you know? So what, what Megan is doing is really cutting against the grain, you know, to live that openly and that free. You know, and I, as far as I know, anywhere in the state of Mississippi, would you say that that is correct about your state?
Meagan: I would say in general, it’s correct. I think in Starkville, you know, there’s a major university here and that helps a lot because there’s a lot of diversity here. And so if, you know, I would, you know, besides Oxford and Starkville and maybe Jackson, I would definitely all the rural places in Mississippi and that’s a different story.
So, you know, I’m, I live in a place where it’s more accepted than other places in Mississippi. Mm-hmm
De’Vannon: okay. So to us about when you came out, when you were young, you [00:24:00] know, in the book, he has a very dramatic scene of you being on the couch and your mother was being really, really extra, you know, in her own way.
That was her reaction. I feel like that her reaction didn’t really help the situation. Can you tell us what happened.
Meagan: Yeah, so, well, I had actually just been outed on campus too. It was all on the same day. So I was had gone through all of this stuff with my spiritual community on campus already. And so I was like, I gotta go tell my mom and my family before work gets around, cuz it’s a small town.
And it was just a matter of time before everyone was gonna know, but I wanted to tell her before anybody else did. And so when I got to her house, she was actually in the middle of losing her best friend of cancer. She was, she was upset. She had been on the phone with her. She was already Not in a good space.
And we sat down on the couch and I had a really hard time just uttering the words. I didn’t know how to say it. [00:25:00] And I was crying. I was bawling. And this is typical of our dynamic. Growing up was I would be an emotional wreck and wanting to say something, but not know how to say it because I wasn’t really taught how to articulate what I was going through or how I was feeling.
And so she was like, what’s wrong, what’s wrong? And I said, I’m not like most girls. And she was like, well, what do you mean? She was totally confused cuz I had dated guys up until that point. And I mean, rightfully so. And then I light bulb went off and she said, you mean you’re gay? And I said, yeah, I just started bawling again.
and she just, you know, I felt like. She shut up emotionally. At that point, she, she went into fear right away. And at the time, I didn’t know, that’s what it was. I just felt like this woman is not happy with me. She seems disappointed, but she wasn’t saying it with words. It was [00:26:00] all body language. It was all like me trying to understand what was going on side of her.
So I always claim the guessing game and being insecure and having had a rough day already. I was, you know, I was a complete wreck. And so then she calls my dad. He comes home, he sits down on the couch and says, don’t you think you’re gonna go to hell. That was the first thing out of his mouth. And I said, no, cuz at that point I had been questioning my spirituality anyway.
And I said, I don’t believe in hell. And then my older brother comes home and he gives me a hug and he said, you know, you should probably leave Mississippi. And. I was like, I froze, you know, I didn’t know what to say to that. It was a very impactful thing to say to someone. And I’ve learned over the years that he just wanted me to be safe.
And I’ve learned over the years that my mom was just really scared for, for me and how I was gonna live a life. You know, they had no [00:27:00] context for any of it. And then my younger brother he, I told him actually a few months before he was the only person that knew. So his presence, he didn’t really say anything.
He was just there to be a presence. He was a very calm presence and I felt very accepted by him. So it was nice to have that, but the whole thing felt like a lot of unspoken words and a lot of things that I had to go and figure out what they meant. Does that make sense?
De’Vannon: That sounds like much ado about nothing to me. That just, I really, really, and like, I mean that to the extent of
how can I say this? So like people’s reactions to things when we’re super vulnerable and transparent to them makes a huge impact on the person who’s doing [00:28:00] the sharing. Right. Okay. So, and I didn’t learn this, you know, until like later in life myself, but you know, when you said that to them, even though it’s presented as concern about you, to me, it’s selfish in nature because ultimately it’s also about their comfort level.
Two right. And it’s ultimately it’s about their perspective and the way they see things, you know, at the end of the day. Right. You know, and of course, as you, and I both know your sexuality should never be a topic of discussion at the kitchen table, in the first damn place. Right. I agree. And so, and and you know, I just [00:29:00] it’s like when I got arrested the first time and one of my siblings, you know, they called me or maybe I called them or whatever.
And I think they called me and then they were crying and it was this whole thing. And it was like, oh my God, you know, you’re gonna get to jail. You’re gonna overdose. It was like, I had like, got caught with like an eight ball of crystal meth in my underwear. And so they were like, oh my God, you’re gonna get a gel and you’re gonna die.
And it was like all of this chaotic drama and, okay. Okay. So on the one hand you could say this person was really concerned. About me, but on the other hand that person’s projecting upon me, all of their fears due to other things they’ve been exposed to, but ultimately they’ve been made to feel uncomfortable over something that’s going on in my life.
Right. Yep. And I’m not okay. I’m with you when people do that. So how I would like it to go. If I get arrested, be like, oh, Hey, so sorry that happened. How can, what, what can I do for you? Right.
Meagan: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, no, [00:30:00] I’m with you on this completely because this is what all of my work boils down to is just, can we all just live and let live, you know, like he made that choice.
That’s on him. You know, I, this is, you know, who I am and it’s not a reflection of anyone, except this is who I am, you know? So just allowing each other to actually just live our lives, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of the heart of why I’ve written the things I’ve written and why I’ve done the work that I’ve done, because that’s ultimately what I would love for people to see people do with each other is to just.
Be there for people, accept people where they are and accept yourself in the process. And I mean, it’s really simple, but we just put so much shit on each other so quickly with judgment and fears or whatever it may be. It’s, you know, it’s the human thing to do, I suppose. [00:31:00]
De’Vannon: Well, that’s called oppression, you know, in many different forms and yeah, we just, God calls us to get away from yeah, I won’t go down that tangent, but no,
Meagan: you can, if you want to, ,
De’Vannon: I’m just gonna sum it up and say, there is a website that I’ve become obsessed with lately and let me find it overview bible.com.
There’s a guy and I hope to get him on my show one day, who does he’s really colorful videos. And I kind of feel like I’m back in kindergarten and, and I’m really stoked about that because, you know, Jesus taught with simplicity. He wasn’t actually, he wasn’t over the top and I love the way this grown man.
That’s taken the complexities of the Bible, which is many different books, many different author authors, over many centuries, you know, packed into one and simplified it into colorful charts. And I love it. And so, and today we were, I was looking at Like oppression. And he was [00:32:00]explaining how God is against oppression and that, you know, how the whole breakaway from like, you know, the tower of Babybel and how they became Babylon, who ended up being the oppressors of like the whole earth, as it was known at the time and how Israel was called away from that, because God is against oppression.
And the laws that we gave them were so that they wouldn’t become like oppressive people. And then once they rebelled and became like oppressive people and they got their PPE spanked, you know, and everything like that, then he washed the whole world away. And then, you know, the whole thing is, you know, and then Jesus comes along.
This, this Jewish guy preaching against oppression, you know, and he was talking about how people would power and money need more oppression to stay in power and money. Absolutely. And how God is against that. And then it creates this whole like dynamic. And so God is the entire oppression and the devil and all that is evil is for oppression, but is it gets conflated because you look at how.
Wealth and power looks and cuz it looks cute. You don’t see it for the oppressive evil that it is. And [00:33:00] so right. Cool. No,
Meagan: thank you for all of that, but it’s true. I mean we do, we do oppress others with just our opinions, you know, and how we feel. We think they should be living their life and that has an impact.
De’Vannon: It, it, it has an impact on people and it, one line that you wrote, you said that your brother’s thoughts about you meant just as much to you as your parents did mm-hmm that when you left your parents’ house that day, you felt raw, you felt responsible, responsible for this major shift in everyone’s life.
Right? And so. This to me is speaking of that oppression. Exactly. Yeah. I need, I need you to help me understand and what I think it is is because maybe you had a good relationship maybe, and these people were important to you. You know, it helped me understand why you felt responsible for the changes that [00:34:00] your, you being yourself was gonna make in people.
Meagan: Cause it was gonna make them, it made them uncomfortable. And I, it was, they were gonna be faced with people who were gonna, you know, they were gonna have to decide of whether they were gonna have to stand up for me or not. They were gonna be faced with people in the community that were gonna say, Hey, I heard Megan’s gay.
That’s you know, they were gonna say terrible things. And they were gonna have to make their stance on where they were with it. And. And I ha and I was really close to my family, you know, and I felt really close to my family before coming out. And it just brought all of who I was to a head. It was like, okay, you guys have no idea who I am and, and here you go.
you know, like here I am changing spiritually here. I am changing my sexuality here. I am changing my path, you know? And, [00:35:00] and at the time it just felt like a big weight and a big responsibility in that I was the one that was gonna have to carry it. You know, it was like, my brother said, you’re leaving. You need to leave Mississippi.
It was like, okay, apparently I’ve gotta do the work here. You know, I didn’t feel like anyone was like, you got this, Megan, I’m behind you. I’m gonna stand up for you. You know, I didn’t have that. I didn’t have anyone cheerleading me on and saying, it’s gonna be okay. You know, giving me a hug and, you know, Saying, this is how you’re gonna get through this, or we’re gonna walk with you.
It was, it, it just felt like it was my fault. That things were gonna be hard for everyone
De’Vannon: who outed you. And how did it happen? You
Meagan: know what? I don’t even know how it happened. I just know that I started getting phone calls. I don’t know who it came from. I just know I started getting phone calls one day from everyone saying, oh, you’re a hypocrite. Oh, you’re gonna go to hell. You know, quoting Bible versus [00:36:00]to me meeting me in the chapel to talk to me, asking me, Hey, do you even know who God is anymore?
Like, it was phone call after phone call, after phone call all in
De’Vannon: one day.
Okay. Well, so for someone to have known this, besides was there anyone else that you had told besides your older brother? Were you going to like some, well, I had a girlfriend.
Meagan: Okay. And And there were a few of our teammates. I played basketball in softball in Mississippi state. And there were some teammates that knew, but they knew not to tell anyone, but there was, you know, it just, people started connecting the dot had been with her for almost a year.
De’Vannon: so either that, or you had a damn Judith ,
Meagan: who knows, I’m sure it was a combination of many people.
De’Vannon: damn, as we snitches get stitches and end up in ditches bitches, keep your mouth shut. Well,
Meagan: and I was one of the leaders of the fellowship of Christian [00:37:00] athlete, you know, like I was the person that did all the Bible studies.
And so people viewed me as like the spiritual leader in some ways. And so it was like wrecking their belief system in their lives.
De’Vannon: Oh, my fucking God. Okay. So , so this, this, this mirrors to me, what happened when I was in, in volunteer leadership at Lakewood church and then my whole gay scandal hit and everything.
And I got plucked from the fold you heard from under Joel Ostein. And they found out about what this was back during my space. So I was a, I was at Lakewood at least 10, 15 hours a week. I was the worship leader for the Wednesday night kids ministry. I was a volunteer supervisor over like 200 kids. And about 20 teachers, I taught my own group of third grade boys.
I was in charge of the check-in process too on Wednesday. Handling all disputes between teachers, parents, et cetera. On the weekends, I sang in that [00:38:00] huge, massive ass Lakewood church, adult choir, wow. And everything like that. And I applied for a job and then they did a social media check and found out that I was like bisexual and hanging out in the gay district, the future Houston, which is Montrose.
Then I had a, a rather scattery clad photo. You know, as my cover page, you know, I was in my twenties and in really good shape, I don’t judge anybody for being a little vain during those days, go for it, honey, work it while you can bitch. And so, and they called me in the office and they were. Well leading up to this, they did underhand shit.
Like they were asking me if I had a girlfriend and saying the parents were complaining about my mannerisms and stuff like that. Yes. This is at Lakewood church. And so, oh, when the MySpace scandal though happen, they were like, oh hell no, you can’t be hanging out with those gay people. They, they, they use negative pronouns with us.
Like they, they, they said pronouns in a negative way. They were like, you can’t be doing that with [00:39:00] them, hanging out over there with those people, you know, , you know, and then like that, I was like, they were like, you’re fired from all areas of volunteering, whether it has anything to do with children or not basically saying that you’re a pedophile, you know, that I’m a pedophile because I’m not straight.
And and so yeah, this, this, this is like reminding me of that, you know, I was in leadership and they’re like, how could you, how could you, how could you have your own private life? you know, so,
Meagan: so what happened? Did you end up staying or leaving or they kick you out
De’Vannon: or. Oh, I was, I was kicked out now they did offer me a conversion therapy package.
they were like, you know, in these churches, in these megachurches, they’re not gonna do like the old Exodus Exodus movement and be like, we want to convert you. They’re gonna be like coursework classes, counseling sessions, that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. They were like, here we [00:40:00] pre-selected these books for you.
If you read these and become UNGA, then you can work your way back into our graces. In the meantime, we can make you a greeter or an usher, but you know, nothing besides that as a greeter and ushers beneath singing in the choir, you know, I realized the choir makes you a lot of money and everything like that, but still that’s that, that offer that very offer was demeaning, the greeters and ushers.
Meagan: Well, you actually get to interact with more people and have more influence. So I don’t understand that.
De’Vannon: Like there, there’s not much that I can make sense out of churches when I sit down and think of them, right. Fellowship of Chris and athletes can go fuck themselves too, because they just like many of these religious organizations have these anti Q I a policies and they run around behind the scenes.
I mean, the way they talk, talk to you in the, in the book, I mean, you know, like you were saying, like, you know, you go to hell, you know, [00:41:00] and all of this, they weren’t, they never asked you, are you okay? Are you okay? Tell us your perspective. How was this? No.
Meagan: Yeah, they didn’t wanna hear what I had to say. And that’s what was most hurtful.
It’s like, I just wanna tell you my experience, but they wouldn’t listen to a word I had to say. And that’s what hurt the most.
De’Vannon: That was the same, the goddamn thing they did to me at Lakeway. They, they, they, there was none of it. Wasn’t a two way conversation. Mm-hmm it was me being preached at the decision was already made.
The judgment was already there. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, it’s such a mind, fuck, because you spent so much time around these people and you think that they would never come and, you know, you think they’ve got your back and you find out that that is conditional love that they’ve had for you this whole time. I, I couldn’t it.
Meagan: I know. And it is it’s, you know, I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately too, is [00:42:00]like, you’re hurting me, but how is me being gay actually hurting you besides just making you think about your faith a little bit differently, or pushing you to love in a different way. You know, like when we’re, when we’re saying things to people, you know, or people are doing things to us, you know, is it actually hurting you?
Their response to me was hurting me. But me being gay, wasn’t actually hurting them when it came down to it. And so that helps me decipher a little bit, the difference between, you know, , what’s right in the end,
De’Vannon: right. Quantifiable damages. And that same logic can be applied to this whole battle against women and abortion.
You know, a woman getting an abortion doesn’t hurt the conservative Republican, but she’s gonna have to go through a very painful pregnancy, you know, with this trials and everything, just to spare your feelings. [00:43:00] Yeah. I wrote a blog on my website called a like the common sense of the 10 commandments and I break down in it.
How, when God gave us, you know, rules and stuff like that, that there’s a practical. Reason, like he’s trying to prevent quantifiable damages. It’s not just rules for the sake of rules. Yeah. And you know, I talk about how, if you wanna Sue someone, you can’t go to court and be like, I wanna Sue Karen because she has a fucked up backyard and it makes me uncomfortable.
You know, now if Karen has a fucked up backyard and the roaches and the critters are coming over into your yard. Yep. Now you have a case because you have quantifiable damages. Right. Which can’t be like, oh, I hate that her fucking Bob haircut, you know, it really offends me. You can’t do that. so
Meagan: yeah, no, I really wanna write a book on this because I feel like if people could like, think about it from that perspective and think about their choices and their feelings and their opinions, and actually put [00:44:00] them into context and think about the other person and if they’re hurting them or if they’re being hurt in return, you know, I just.
The need for control and the need to, to be able to, you know, have our hands on how things are supposed to look or how things are supposed to be. It’s just, it’s so damaging. Like there’s, no life is a mystery and that’s the way it should always be. It’s just a mystery, but people don’t like, you know, they like to have, they like to think they know how things are supposed to be and what they’re supposed to look like.
De’Vannon: Mm-hmm, , mm-hmm the mind is a deep, well, you all learn this in my study of hypnotherapy, cuz I’m also a, a trained hypnotist also. It’s so deep that it’s unsearchable. And for all we know about it, we don’t really know all that much. Exactly. And the same thing goes for the spirit world. Can you even there’s so much, we don’t know.
Or the universe for those of you who like to worship the universe and whatever, we just [00:45:00]received the new image today, you know, on face. I saw that, you know, and I thought, oh my God, like so much beauty and variety out there. And yet we’re conservatives wanna make it just one way here this earth. And so,
I don’t know, have I ever write a book address in these hardheaded ass people? Because I’m more like, you know, everyone’s got their calling, you know, that’s the, that’s, that’s the loving side of you, you know, I’m more like let’s burn these fuckers to the ground.
De’Vannon: You know, so then let’s talk about your outreach then, you know, with your sweet bighearted loving self. You too, you do B Q I a advocacy in the great state of Mississippi with pastors. When you told me this. You know, I di near fell out of my chair because just the, like, just to imagine somebody [00:46:00] going to talk to somebody who know and you know, that they think that there’s something wrong with you and you’re, and you’re willingly going to sit in front of them.
Why, what are you doing? Like, like what, what progress have you seen?
Meagan: That’s a good question. Well, there’s been a multitude of stor. I mean, there’s a multitude of stories there that I could go into first. I think for me initially, it was about wanting to be comfortable enough in my own skin, that when I sat across from someone who vehemently disagreed with who I was, and I could still feel okay when I left.
So for me, in some ways it was a little bit of a personal challenge that I wanted to be so comfortable. That someone like that would not affect how I felt about myself. Okay. And so for me, there’s a little bit of that [00:47:00] and also a need to represent my community and to help people understand our stories and our experience when we’re treated like we don’t matter.
And I wanted to do it for those two reasons. And so when, you know, like marriage rights and other rights were kind of starting to change 2012, 2013, all the way up until marriage equality was passed. There was this big span of years where I was either on the news with Baptist, Patrick pastors having a debate.
Or on stage on campuses in Mississippi, on national coming out there, whatever, telling my story, there was just this whole, I was on Mississippi public radio. They were very interested in my story. And so I was just very [00:48:00] much in the Mississippi world being that voice because everyone else around me was too scared.
They were afraid they were gonna lose their jobs. They were afraid they were gonna lose their, their loved ones. They didn’t wanna be outed yet. A lot of people were still in the closet. And so I just, I felt this need for myself to get over my own fears. And I felt this need for my community to help them be understood.
And I didn’t wanna do it from a place of anger because I don’t, I’m not super comfortable with anger. And I also found. Anger didn’t get me anywhere in conversations. You know, it just left us feeling like we hadn’t accomplished anything. And then I would walk away feeling bad about myself. So I approached all these conversations from a place of just being vulnerable about my experience of coming out.
And so the stories you’ve read in that book are stories that I would share with pastors or priests or with, you know, spiritual leaders in the [00:49:00] community who wanted to have conversations with me. And I spoke from that place rather than saying, Hey, you need to change the way you think and feel about this or pointing the finger and blaming.
Because I wanted to feel empowered afterwards. And I always felt empowered afterwards because I was honest about my experience and I wanted them to see me as a human and not as a label. And that’s the only way I knew how to do it and walk away feeling like I represented myself. And I also gave them something to think about that I’m a human being and I have feelings.
I’m not just like, , I’m not just a gay person. I’m more than that. And I, and I wanted to get underneath that way. And that’s what opened doors for conversations. That’s when they started telling me their stories. That’s when they started asking me eventually, like, how can I help? What can we do? And this was an evolution over, you know, many years that this happened, but that’s how I decided to approach it and how I [00:50:00] found it to be fulfilling for me.
And I know everybody’s different, but that’s, that’s the route I’ve
De’Vannon: taken. Well, we can agree on one thing is that, you know, we, it’s not up for us to try to change their minds, right.
Meagan: We definitely, exactly. But we can come to a place where we can understand each other and I didn’t want it. And I truly did not wanna change someone’s mind.
I wanted them to see that I was more than a label cuz that’s all I had been or that’s all I felt like I had been. And sometimes I still feel that way. You know, it’s like, oh she’s gay. And then she’s this, this, this, this, this. But if I’m not sharing my experiences, how will they ever know that I’m not more than that.
So I’ve just found over the years, it’s the best. It’s been the best approach for me.
De’Vannon: That is very humble of you. And we’ve all got our part to play. Strictly speaking. It is [00:51:00] incumbent upon each of us. To grow for ourselves, you know, to do the things that we need you to grow. So if they weren’t so arrogant as to think they already knew everything about you and people like us, yeah.
They would be more open minded. They would go to a pride meeting, a pride exactly. Of convention, parent, friends of lesbians and gay P PFL. Like they would go to educational things. They would reach out and learn, but before they would do that, they would have to be willing to take a second look at things.
They would have to be open minded and actually interested in peace. Absolutely. All people rather than to jumping to. Yeah. So. I think it’s very big view. Very, very, very, and I commend you and I respect the fuck out of you for reaching across the aisle. I feel like this is a God damn democratic Republican situation.
You know, you’re coming across the aisle. , [00:52:00]
Meagan: I mean, we gotta do something, right? Like the way we’ve done it, isn’t working, you know, we’re no more connected than we were 10 years ago. And, you know, I, I feel very connected to my community now, I think because of all these experiences and conversations that have happened, I feel very supported by my community now, but it was a long, hard road for me to just constantly just throw it out there.
Like it was hard and painful and I risked a lot every time I did it. But now that I’m at the place where I am in my life, where I don’t give a fuck about what people think it to me, it was completely worth how I approached it.
De’Vannon: I’m gonna ask you about exactly how you got to the point of giving so much of a fuck to not giving a fuck.
And that’s my next question for it. cause I need to bring this all to like a nexus point. Cause I wanna see how we go from Megan. The, you know, the outed girl, [00:53:00] chaos and drama identity wrapped up in our family’s opinions to independent, married to a woman with a kid and saying, fuck you all. But if you would like to know more I’m here for you, you know,
yeah. Oh know how we get, you know, you know what, how we got there, but I wanted to mention that, that this dream that I had that And, you know, I don’t. And then, so I’m a gifted dreamer. I started dreaming around the age of four or five. My dreams come true. That is like one of the greatest gifts that I have.
It just came to me that way. And I dream time. I love that. And so look, and I love God for it. I love, I love to sleep and to see what he’s gonna say to me every night is yeah, that’s beautiful. That’s awesome. Beautiful thing to look forward to. So in this dream, I that’s like, I heard a song being S song by conservative people who are like your Republicans and [00:54:00] your people like that, who think that they know what’s wrong with other people and who tend to want to persecute people like SA did before you became Paul.
He felt like his way of looking at things was the only way it should be looked at. And if you didn’t and he was gonna try to find a way to force you because you were the demons, you, he would demonize you, its like these people were singing a song. And like you’re saying, it’s like, you know, they had a change of heart and in this song, it’s like, they were, they were asking, what, what, what, what, what could they have done differently?
Or what, what kind of way could they do it better? It’s like is like, God was turning them around. Mm-hmm
I don’t, this, this is something that, that really, really shocked me is sometimes God will do, because I don’t go about the business of praying to God, like for Republicans. Right. You know, or hateful people to change. Cuz that’s not my ministry. My [00:55:00] ministry is to deal with the people. They have hurt. That is who I’m called to.
I don’t ask him to change the hearts of coldhearted ass, megachurch leaders or church leaders. No matter the sizes. That’s not who I’m called to. So when this dream came to me, you know, I was just like, just like in awe. Sometimes God will do this to me. He will show me something that’s completely like, has nothing to do with like my vein of thinking or the direction that I’m going, but it stops.
And it commands my attention because he’s God and he can do what he wants and I’m happy to be submissive to him. And so I wonder this dream, you know, you know, is isn’t speaking to me something about the work that you’re doing, you know, because it, you know, this came to me shortly before I met you, you know, what was to be, you know, before I had my first conversation with you.
Yeah. I wonder if it’s for telling something to come, do you feel, you know, on a grander scale, a shift happening or more people who [00:56:00] have not been open mind becoming more openminded, you know, globally speaking, I
Meagan: mean, I think our leadership doesn’t reflect PE the, the, the true essence of people and I’ve seen that.
And the reason I said it is because, you know, I’ve lived in. The more rural parts of Mississippi too. And I’ve immersed myself here in Starkville and I’ve immersed myself in different communities around here in Columbus and west point, which are smaller towns, a little bit more conservative, a little bit less diverse.
And every time we’ve put ourselves in a new pocket and we’ve been open about who we are talking about, my wife and I, and my family,
people always meet us in the middle. And it always surprises me because of my experience of coming out and where I’ve come from. And, you know, the things that I’ve gone through. [00:57:00] But in the last 5, 6, 7 years, I’ve seen a major shift in perspective towards my family. And that’s all I can speak to. Right.
Like I can’t, I can’t speak to anything else. I just know that at the core. And the majority of people in the world I think are really good. I really do. And I truly believe that and that our representation, our corporate, you know, our corporate climate, our leadership politics, all of that is of a different essence and they don’t necessarily represent everyone.
So that’s why I just really try to focus on like who’s in front of me right now and are they loving towards me and my family? And am I loving towards them? And, and am I inspired by their presence in my life? And if I can inspire and be inspired with the people who are in my life to me, I feel like that’s what I can focus on and that’s all I can do.[00:58:00]
And so that’s why I focus so much on my own community because it’s really the only thing that matters to me is my family, those relationships, my close friends, and the people I’m directly affecting. So, I don’t know if I answered your question or not, but I, I do feel like that media and social media plays a huge part in making things seem so much worse than they really truly are.
And we ha we get into, you know, and once you get into that mindset of fear, it’s so easy to spiral down into it yourself, and you forget to act from love and you’re acting from fear instead. And we limit ourselves because of that. But I think the media and social media plays a huge part in why we feel like things are so terrible right now.
De’Vannon: Yeah. You answered my question. And that’s why I’m excited, how you’re gonna [00:59:00] help me grow. Cuz I have so much things to grow with me when I’m number two with me when I’m around people who I know don’t like straight PE non straight people, it’s bad energy. I think it’s damaging and I don’t feel safe. And so that’s why I’m so quick to get away from it.
And so that’s why I was so intrigued to see how you can, you know, tolerate it. But again, you know, you’re not around them all day, you know, you probably,
Meagan: I’m not immersing myself in that. No.
De’Vannon: You know, so no. So, so then as, as promise, you know, my, my other question for you would be like how you made the transition and the, the, the key, a key line from the, you know, the book that I like that I think kind of.
Sums up of how a lot of people feel when they’re trying to come out or they’re unsure. You said that this is a, this is a kind of unworthiness that seeps into your decision making by masking what isn’t good for you with something that appears to be the missing piece. Hmm. [01:00:00] So how did you go from that to where you are now?
Meagan: Yeah, it’s the whole feeling of not feeling like you’re enough and you’re not whole, and you’re not worthy of God’s love, you know, I mean the church teaches you that, or at least the church I grew up in is like, you’re a sinner. You’re not worthy of, God’s love, you know, we’re not enough. And so you have those messages playing apart, but then you’re also, you know, an L G LGBTQ plus person.
And you’re not enough in the eyes of the law. You’re not enough in the eyes of your family or your, you know, your, of society. And so there’s a lot against you. And for me, the journey has been about.
Doing what I wanna do and following my heart and whether it comes down to my work, the balance in my life, the person I chose to marry the family that I always wanted, like I have just gone after everything I’ve [01:01:00] wanted. And even, you know, like relationships with my family members. It’s been counseling, it’s been hard conversations like this.
Hasn’t been all butterflies and rainbows. It’s been ugly and hard and I’ve cried a lot over the years and I’ve been in therapy and I’ve been through coaching and, you know, I’ve screwed up my career and you know, it’s just, it’s been, it’s just been a tumultuous thing, but I’ve finally got to this point.
When I decided to get married and then we decided to have a child and have the family wanted and, you know, live where we wanted to live and do the careers that we wanted to do. It’s like, if you just say yes to the things that you want and what your heart wants, everything else works itself out. And and I truly believe that.
And I feel like that’s been a big part of it and telling my story over the years is a big part of my healing process, facing those harder [01:02:00] conversations with, you know, my community and pastors and city council or whoever it’s been, that has been a part of those baby steps for me and has helped me kind of get to this place where I actually like myself and I love myself and I’m good.
Like, I don’t need anything else in my life besides what I.
De’Vannon: So that’s very, very beautiful. Thank you for that breakdown. So if someone doesn’t have a platform though, and speaking is healing, what, what would you say to like somebody in a small country town? Yeah. Who just happened to stumbles across this episode? In the year of struggling with coming out? Maybe they did come out and now they feel abandoned and they’ve been rejected.
Meagan: Yeah. Well, I’d started with my journal, you know, like tell your stories there. Then I still went into counseling and I told my stories there. And then I found a group of friends that I knew would accept me. And I [01:03:00] told my stories there, you know, I went to safe spaces and I think you have to start in safe spaces.
You can’t go to your church that know, you know, is gonna reject you and tell your story there until you’re good enough to handle that shit. You know, like you gotta start small and you gotta start in those spaces where, you know, you’re gonna be loved and
De’Vannon: And as evil as social media is I think if it’s used in the right way, that sort of, you can reach out and connect to positive groups, if that’s what you’re
Meagan: absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah. Or reach out to me or reach out to you, you know, like there’s so many more resources out there than people realize. And when you’re feeling victimized and you’re feeling stuck, it’s hard to see possibilities, but there’s so much out there and there’s so many good people out there who
De’Vannon: will help.
Right. You don’t wanna let your mindset become victim to the circumstances. Right.
Meagan: bringing it back, bring it back.
De’Vannon: Okay. Well [01:04:00] I think we pretty much covered it for today. What, is there anything, any final words you’d like to say or anything that you wanna talk about that we didn’t the flourish or no,
Meagan: I, I thank you for this discussion and the, you know, just the realness and. Those were really hard questions and really good questions and it pushed me.
So I I’m very appreciative
De’Vannon: blessing to be upon you. My sister, her name it’s me.
Meagan: I sound French.
De’Vannon: You know, you have the apostrophe and everything. That’s true. M E a G a N O N a n.com. Of course, we’ll go into showy notes, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, her sociable media will also go into show notes and on her website, you’ll be to find her books and everything like that.
So next time on my beautiful souls, all my beautiful, colorful people out [01:05:00] there in all the universe, be diverse, be different, and don’t dare be like anybody else. Amen.
Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex drugs in Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at SexDrugsAndJesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.
My name is De’Vannon and it’s been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is gonna be right.