The Sober Gay is a podcast hosted by Dillan Gay with Aubrey Lee in Denver, Colorado. They explore a wide range of topics that relate back to a common theme: staying sober in a community that was designed to glorify alcohol.
INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):
· Dillan’s Journey Of Sobriety
· Our Opinion’s On Anonymous Programs
· The Impact Of Accessibility To Alcohol On Sobriety
· The Impact Of Community On Alcohol Use
· The Importance Of Perspective
· How Jealousy Plays A Role
· Beware Of Routines
· Mental Health & Physical Health
· Sex Before And After Sobriety
CONNECT WITH DILLAN:
CONNECT WITH DE’VANNON:
· Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)
o TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs
· OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)
· Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)
· Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levin
· Upwork: https://www.upwork.com
· FreeUp: https://freeup.net
VETERAN’S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS
· Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org
· American Legion: https://www.legion.org
· What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg
INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?:
· PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.
You’re listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De’Vannon and I’ll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what’s really going on in your life.
There is nothing off the table and we’ve got a lot to talk about. So let’s dive right into this episode.
De’Vannon: Dylan Gay is a host of the Sober Gay podcast and he is here to open up about his fight in overcoming alcohol in their sobriety journey through the L LGBTQIA A plus community. Please join us today as we discuss the impact of alcohol on mental health, physical health, sexual health, and so much more.
And feel free to reach out to me and let me know how alcohol has had an impact on your life. Thank [00:01:00] you so much and enjoy the show. Hello everyone. My name is Devana and I’d like to welcome you to the Sex Drugs in Jesus podcast. I got my homie Dylan Gay here with me today from the Sober Gay Podcast. And yes, gay is his real last name. He was at the start of each of his shows. How the fuck are you, my
Dillan: friend? I’m wonderful. How are
I’m fantastic. Yes. Uh, We’re recording this on Friday, the 9th of September. I got on my lsu. Tigers, Louisiana State University t-shirt. We start tailgating tomorrow. Ooh. Looking forward to stepping away from my Xbox and actually going out and talking to real humanoids. Yes, . .
Dillan: You’re out in the world again, ,
De’Vannon: right, and just doing a twirl.
It’s a great workout. Louisiana State University is a huge fucking campus, so it’s a good [00:02:00]exercise day for. So so like I said, Dylan hosts the So Brigade podcast. The website is the, so brigade do com. You can catch them on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. Primarily Instagram though. And today we’re gonna be talking about Dylan’s sobriety journey.
So on my show I’ve taken, you know, everybody through my whole journey of, you know, you know, not doing drugs because of the church getting on of them after I got kicked out of the church. And that my dicey relationship with like crystal Meth Anonymous and the anonymous movement as a whole to my current hallucinogenic expiration.
And, you know, I go back and forth, you know, with it. Making space for everything. But today I thought it would be great to get back to talking about, you know, sobriety and the people who are, you know, still in that camp though, I’ve broken away from that. So talk to me about why you started the podcast, what [00:03:00] led you to it, and give me like a synopsis of your sobriety.
Dillan: So I started the show in right in the beginning of the pandemic. It was in April of 2020 or May. I started, so I was about three months sober at that time, and I really just needed an outlet and something to do because I didn’t foresee as anyone else did the pandemic coming and much less, you know, three months into sobriety when you know, it’s a very crucial time to be not worried about the world around you and just worried about yourself.
I really didn’t know what to do with myself. I was trying to find some kind of queer outlets or something I could relate to. All I could really find was female ran podcast that I could really feel relatable. I didn’t feel any, you know, queer love from any like sobriety. [00:04:00] Topics, or, you know, anything, podcasts.
So I was like, you know, let’s just make one . So I made the sober gay very early in my sobriety. It was very like, kind of weird. Like I, I had a like, thought like, you know what, if this doesn’t work out, I’m only three months into it, and here I, I’m making a show about it. But it actually worked out really nicely.
Creates a chronological timeline of my beginning of sobriety up until almost three years of sobriety. So it’s like you can start the show in the beginning and really feel where I’m at and watch how I grow into, you know, a better version of myself. And so what started my sobriety in general? I was, Drinking a lot.
10, about 10 years. I started when I was about 17, 18, really heavy drinking every and heavy drinking. I mean, like [00:05:00] every day, even when I’ve got strep throat or when I’m really sick, I’m making sure I still can choke down, you know, three glasses of wine or four, you know what I mean? Like it was, and I’m sure you know, you as a.
Addict understands what that’s like. When even your body is sick and telling you to just rest, you’re like, okay, I’ll rest, but as long as I have a little bit of, you know what I need in my system, I can rest. And it just, you never fully give your body a chance to rest. And I was getting tired. It was 10 years into it and it was just a charade at that point.
I had, I was 28 when I got sober and. I just remember getting wine and shots every night, and that was my, every single, every, every day thing go home by myself at that point. Because once you’re that far into it, I had gotten very isolated just by myself and enjoying my habit. And it was one night I was, [00:06:00] it was December 14th, I was.
going home, and I was like driving past the same liquor store that I’d always stop at and I said, you know what? I should just not stop at the liquor store and just go home and give myself, give my body a rest. I could use my, my body could use a rest and I couldn’t do it. I literally, it was like, A force had taken over me and my, my hands held the steering wheel and pulled into the parking lot of the liquor store and I was screaming in the car audibly, screaming out loud, stop.
What are you doing? Why are we doing this? Why are we stopping here? You can just go home. I was saying this like to myself, screaming it and I parked, got outta the car and it was literally felt like I was like in a video game and couldn’t control my own vessel, like, and I was just walking to the liquor.
I grabbed the bottle. Grabbed my shots, paid, went home, smiled at the cashier, left and went home, and I sat down. When I, as soon as I got home, I sat down and I said, okay, you got your stuff. [00:07:00] Let’s do it in silence. No stimulation. I turned everything off. I made sure I put my phone away and I just wanted to sit there and get as hammered as I could and just experience it as fully as I could with no stimulation external.
And it was a very, very horrible night for me. I mean, just sitting there in silence with myself and my thoughts, it was one of the first times I had been able to just sit with my thoughts without something drowning it out, and to be all drunk. It was just miserable. I was so sad. It’s just, I felt all of the sensations, I felt dizzy.
I, it’s like things I had never felt from the alcohol before. So the next day, I said, no, I’m not gonna do it. I’m not going to the liquor store. And that was the first day. December 15th was the first day that I had said no, and I’m just not gonna do it anymore, and I’m just gonna go straight home [00:08:00] and throw myself in a bathtub.
And I’ve been sober since. So that was kind of what really drew me into it was just how bad it had gotten. And I, I know I didn’t. Say all the bad things that happened leading up to it, but I don’t really need to. It had gotten to a point where it took over my body and it was all I could care about. So that’s kind of the main gist of why I stopped and why I started the podcast.
De’Vannon: Right. And you know that, that, that point of when it’s too much varies per person. And we’re gonna talk about later on, because one of the, the things of one of your shows was asking for help and, you know, and so, so we’ll talk about, you know, when does that point come, you know, where you need help. But what I, but what I wanna ask you is, How did you stop?
Did you use like alcoholics Anonymous, a rational recovery, some sort of program, or do you feel like you received the Divine Deliverance? [00:09:00]
Dillan: I made my own little. Thing, I guess I, I, I dabbled into Alcoholics Anonymous. I went to a couple meetings here and there. I knew that wasn’t gonna be my sole outlet of getting sober, though I just didn’t relate to a lot of it.
I didn’t like how they worded a lot of it. So I wanted different options. I read a lot of books. I read this Naked Mind from Annie Grace, that’s Probably what really put the nail in the coffin for me. It really just kind of breaks down what alcohol is in a non-biased way and just kind of tells you everything, how there’s.
Type one drinkers, type two drinkers. People that can drink one drink and then go about their day and be done or whatever they need to do and not drink for days or months, whatever. And then there’s type two, you know, like people that obsess over it, if they have just a little lick of it and can’t [00:10:00]stop, won’t stop until they finish and get as fucked up as they can.
She kind of breaks it down into just like the hard facts and it really just kind of reset my brain into my relationship with alcohol. So definitely Annie Grace. I had to listen to a lot of podcasts. I did a lot of meditation trying to just get inside my body and out of it at the same time.
That was mainly, I didn’t use, I didn’t go to rehab, I didn’t do any of that stuff this time around. This was my third attempt at getting sober and this was the one that stuck was, and I think mainly what I had to do is because I was making the choice for myself my previous times trying to get sober, it was.
External sources influencing me to get sober, whether it be an ex or friends. This was the time where I really wanted it for myself, and I think that’s where it clicks you. I mean, it’s hard to do anything for [00:11:00] anyone else that’s remotely difficult, so you gotta really wanna do it for yourself or to be able to succeed, you know, to your fullest potential, in my opinion.
De’Vannon: Very interesting. Yeah. I’m all for the autonomous approach to self-development. I believe in independent spirituality. Say like in the Christian world, like without going to church, I believe in sobriety without the need for like a group, you know, because I feel like when. When we take it so personally and stuff like that, it seems to stick more with us.
And then when we, when we’re believing what we’re believing or we’re doing what we’re doing on the path we’re on, because we want to be on it and because of what’s coming to us and not because of the group or some authority figure, you know, physical authority figure, you know. I think it’s more permanent because [00:12:00] eventually, you know, holes get poked in the, in the images of the people we look up to or in the institutions or in the organizations.
So be it the churches, the anonymous movement, you know, whatever. They start off with a glistening reputation and then it gets a little tainted over the time and then that can fuck up people’s sobriety. It can fuck up people’s faith, you know, in their God it can, it can make people dis distrust, you know, which is a lot of what happened to me.
I ain’t for the anonymous movement. It started off cute because you know, that’s the best thing that I had available. But as I got more into it, I saw the holes in it, you know, I was like, how dare you tell me I should not do crystal meth and cocaine when you’re chain smoking cigarettes and drinking a gallon of coffee at every week.
Oh hell no,
This hypocrisy will not work. . Right, right.
So then this brings me to a [00:13:00] question I wanted to ask you. I know I’m not hearing anything about like drugs in your history, but just, just for shits and gigs, I wanna get your opinion on this because you know, you were able to walk into the liquor store, you know, and buy what you want and everything like that.
People who are strung out on drugs and shit like that. You know, generally, unless you’re like in a place where it’s decriminalized, which in the United States is only Oregon, you can’t just like, you know, go into the store and buy you a gram of meth, you know, or an vol of Coke. So like there, there’s barriers to access.
Do you feel like You know, with, with people who struggle with alcohol because the thing that is, is hurting you is legal. You know, as long as you’re over 21, you can just bloody walk into the store and buy all you want and there’s, nobody’s gonna stop you. Do you, do you think that, that the ease of access has to something to do
Dillan: with that or?
Absolutely. I think it’s, I mean, it’s so easy to get and it’s branded everywhere. You, you sit on the bus stop on [00:14:00] the corner and there’s a Coors Light ad on it, and it’s, you can’t escape it in this, in our, the world that we’ve created for ourselves here. So of course I think it definitely makes it a little harder to be sober, especially in the beginning times.
But I mean, when every event and everything is sponsored by a different alcohol and every event is centered around drinking, whether it be a wedding or a funeral or anything, there’s gonna be alcohol provided. And it’s not looked at as like weird. It’s socially accepted for someone to be in grief and to take a drink to make them feel better, it’s like, People encourage that.
They’re like, oh, they need a drink after that. Like, it, it’s the only, no one would say like, oh, they need to hit a meth after that. Like, , like, it’s like, so like you don’t have to go around hearing like that encouragement from the world around you. It’s just, it’s like, Blah. . .
De’Vannon: They would’ve [00:15:00] said that in my trap house back in my church.
Dillan: Oh, just take a little hit of Matthew.
De’Vannon: You’ll feel better. We would say a bumper tool. Old Do
Dillan: a bumper two or do
De’Vannon: bumper tool do. That was ourselves, our slogan.
Dillan: Oh God, .
De’Vannon: So the, the, the theme of one, of, one of your shows was actually called, you know, staying Sober in a community that was designed to glorify alcohol, staying sober in a community that was designed to glorify alcohol.
And I was gonna ask you about that. And I suppose that’s much of what you were just saying, but by community, I was wondering if you meant the L G B T Q community or like Yeah. At large.
Dillan: I think especially the, it’s targeted towards the LGBTQ community. Just like any nightclub or anything, that’s, that’s the safe space for queer people is a nightclub that’s full of alcohol and it’s just always around the culture.
It’s just, I, I can’t, every gay person or queer person has a story of a time that [00:16:00] someone, either they or someone around them was way too drunk and something bad happened. It’s like, It’s just rampant in the queer community. That’s one of the main reasons I started the show was because I couldn’t find any of the resources, like talking about it, like how bad it was in the community.
And it, it’s not even just alcohol, it’s just drugs in general. Like queer people are looking for an escape from this world, this reality around us. And that’s one of the only things people feel they can turn to is a mind altering substance to take away all the, the baggage we’ve been holding on for so long.
De’Vannon: Right, because whenever I’m in a gay bar, I hope, you know, hopefully I don’t never have to take a shit because you will not be able to get any of those stalls. Cause everyone’s all the coen. Yeah.
De’Vannon: though I’m not judging them. And if you see me, I would like a bump, but you know, , but you know, I’m not, I’m not here to judge.
But it is just true, you know, no [00:17:00] matter what city I’m in. invariably, there will always be drugs in the club right now when you’ve been on the, you know, the bus or whatever the case may be. You know, and you’ve see, you know, you’ve seen the, the Corona. Corona signs and God forbid, taka vodka, oh Lord.
Mm-hmm. , you know, if you’re gonna put something in your body, at least have some decency. Girl , you know? So, so how would you center your mind, you know, if you’re trying to overcome alcohol, you’re seeing it branded. Everywhere you go is on every commercials, on all the billboards. People got it on their fucking t-shirts, you know, everywhere you go.
How would you, where, where, where would you go to in your head? How would you overcome.
Dillan: That changes for everyone. I think a lot of people get it really triggered. For me personally, I literally had to, you know, really just wake up and see what the world for, what it is, and just decide my own choices, what I wanna make.
It’s, it’s not easy. It’s not like, [00:18:00] you know, but it’s also not that hard at this point that I’ve gotten so used to it. I just kind of had to reframe everything. I had to question everything honestly. And. Question why I believed the way I believed things were and if I even wanted to be that way anymore.
Yeah. And like I really had to just, you know, listen to what I felt and not what everyone else was telling me to feel.
De’Vannon: I couldn’t have said it better myself. I got to a point in reevaluating my stance on like religion and churches and drugs, and I just told the Lord. I was like, you know what? I’m just gonna take my life at this point and just kind of throw it all in the trash because the other people’s voices are too enmeshed in my conscious and subconscious, and you use the word that we used in hyp hypnosis as I’m a train hypnotist as well, you use a reframe.
You know, we’re always reframing. Reframing, reframing, you know, and or replacing depending on the situation. But it’s, you know, there’s a [00:19:00] lot of reformation that has to happen. And, and I tell God like, you know what? This, this is just so clouded in my head, so let’s just toss it all out and I’m gonna act like I’m a baby just being born and I’m gonna approach a life brand new.
And you, yes, communicate with me what you do and don’t want because I don’t trust the other people cuz they had shady motive.
Dillan: Right. And I like the reframing because you can’t get rid of anything. You can’t get rid of. A lot of people think that, and I, I’m saying this personally, I thought I could get rid of my anger.
I thought I could get rid of my sadness. You can’t get rid of it. You have to learn to reframe it and learn to live with it and learn to move it into a, a transfer of energy into another part of your body and make it better. It’s not always about getting rid of everything and just forgetting about it, expelling it.
It’s not there. I don’t believe it. It’s not, it’s not the inside of me anymore. Therefore it’s gone. It’s not, I don’t think it’s like that. It’s, you really have to just rework it in your brain and make it [00:20:00] into a space that’s comfortable for you to be okay with it. Cuz I mean, you don’t have to love everything about yourself, but it’s good to be okay with it.
So you’re talking
De’Vannon: about a perspective shift.
Dillan: Yeah, just everything. When I see all those ads for alcohol, I don’t even see them anymore. Honestly. I’ve learned to just see that as like, ugh, garbage. It’s like spam mail. You don’t read through every single spam mail like title. It’s like, nah. You just know. You see it instantly and you’re like, that’s spam.
I don’t need it.
De’Vannon: You might wanna right, you might wanna look into training as a hypnotherapist is what you, is what you’re talking about doing is the exact sort of stuff I learned in school. Oh, really? . ,
Dillan: right? Intuition. ,
De’Vannon: yeah. Like reframing, replacing like, so, so someone comes with like, It comes to us for a hypnosis to work on, say, smoker cessation.
They don’t wanna smoke anymore. We’re not gonna like try to take the habit. We’re gonna like maybe replace that with something else. And I like, maybe when they think about smoking, maybe they’ll kind of pinch their fingers together or maybe they’ll, [00:21:00] you know, or maybe reach for, transfer the energy right now.
Right. Yeah. You’re taking that and you’re, cause it looks like a baby. If they, they want the little suckle thing, you don’t take it from them. You have to take that and give them something else. Mm-hmm. , you know, Absolutely. So, and maybe look into that. I went to H M I, the Hypnosis Motivation Institute out in Tarzana, California, that they have great online courses.
They were the first accredited hyp hypnotherapy school in the United States. They’re not paying me to promote, to recruit people or nothing like that, but you seem to have the gift . So
Dillan: thank you. Thank you very much. I’m gonna, I’ll definitely look into that cuz it’s, I’ve always, I’m always looking into different cool mediums That’s very up
De’Vannon: my alley.
Yeah. And that’s all about the mind and subconscious and neurolinguistic programming and you know, and how we’re affected by things without realizing it, you know, and everything like that. And, you know, it’s, it’s quite fascinating. It helped me to reframe anger and stuff that I used to hold, like towards my boyfriend and different people, you know?
And I began to look at it from a [00:22:00] different perspective and I was able to gain a great amount of peace. , you
Dillan: know, Yeah, it’s just long. It’s just all that perspective, perspective shift. It’s just like you can either wake up and see it as like, oh, I missed the bus. I did this went wrong, this went wrong. Or you can see it as like, oh, I’m getting an opportunity to walk a little slower to work today.
And they’ll understand I’ll be late. And like just reframing everything, just totally changes. Could change anything about yourself. But I guess that’s what you were talking about with hypnotherapy, cuz that’s literally what it’s for, is to help change parts of yourself, , mm-hmm.
De’Vannon: and getting through all the noise in the head and the subconscious.
My favorite thing that I’ve reframed lately was like, so when I was in the military, you know, they always taught me to move fast, fast, fast, fast, fast. If you’re 15 minutes, Early than you’re really late, you know? Right. Thing. Everything’s over the top. You’re better than than normal civilians. You know, you don’t wanna be like that.
And you know, and I got outta the military like 20 years ago and I just had this [00:23:00] reformation like the other week, you know, or maybe even the other day. And I then I thought to myself, you know what, because when you get outta the military, you get outta there judging society because they’ve taught us that we’re better than everyone else.
But they don’t, they don’t. Deprogram our military minds when they throw us back out into society. So then, then I’m thinking, you suck cuz you’re slow and you’re late. And the shit’s not that big a deal. It’s a form of P T S D that many of us get outta the military with unfortunately, it seems. Mm-hmm. So I thought to myself maybe, maybe it’s not that people are slow.
Maybe I’m moving too damn fast.
Dillan: Right. Right. So you just have to like stop and reframe it. You’re like, everyone’s not going so slow. Yeah. I’m just in hyper
De’Vannon: speed. . Yeah. Maybe I sneak to slow the fuck down. And I’m a Sagittarius though. It’s hard for me to dial it
Dillan: back. Oh yeah. SA is, you guys are always wanting to go explore and go and go.
De’Vannon: but it’s unrealistic, you know? And so I was like, you know what, maybe VA slowed down. You know, I have my times where I can go fast, but not [00:24:00] all the time, the van. And so that, as simple as that may seem, I’ve never told myself that too much before. Mm-hmm. , you know, but little one-liners like that can really redirect us.
Absolutely. So another topic of one of your shows you were talking about like jealousy and anger at people who can still drink. Mm, so this, so this bacon, so like a bitterness. When somebody decides that, Hey, for me, it’s coming too far and I wanna stop drinking. Now I’m at this party, and that bitch over there has that cosmo that I would love to have.
Fuck her. Mm-hmm. , you know, how do you deal
Dillan: with that there? Yeah, mine, mine is red wine. Any Cabernets or anything? I was always very, you know, I’m from the East Coast, very like it’s very New York City to have a glass of red wine in your hand, you know, like right . So that one is like, that one still kind of gets to me.
Just, I just miss that elegance in the class and you just, [00:25:00] it just makes you personify this new feeling. And it’s not even the drink that was doing it. It was literally just the glass with the red liquid inside of it that I was holding that made me feel that, you know, fanciness, . But yeah, it does suck seeing other people be able to enjoy it and, I’m like, oh, I’ve done all this work on myself.
I’ve done all this therapy. I should be able to go have a drink now. Right? Eh, like I tell myself that sometimes and I’m like, eh, maybe not , but it does suck to see other people enjoy it. And I just know I can’t ever get to that level again.
De’Vannon: Right now, don’t remember it was you and, and y’all, Dylan as a co-host, his, his name’s Aubery one of you mentioned.
how you go to weddings and parties and stuff like that and that you’re finding that you’re not actually the only sober person. And so, so it seems like, it sounds, it feels really lonely at first, but you’re finding that you’re actually, you’re not the only sober gay running [00:26:00] around.
Dillan: Right. And I mean, the first wedding I went to, I had a lot of fun, but I left early cuz I just got so anxious and.
Just uneasy. But I went to a, a wedding after that and it was much easier. I think I had to really just like get back into the groove of it. But the first one I went to after getting sober was definitely hard. I, you know, seeing everyone dance and let loose and, you know, run back to their table and take a little shot or whatever to loosen them up a little more to go on the dance floor.
And I was like, oh, I, I’m just, I, they’re just expecting me to just go on the dance floor, like there’s no inebriation in my system. Like they’re just expecting me to go out there and dance. I just couldn’t do it. I had to leave. . But the wedding after that, I had, you know, the second one I went to after that in sobriety, I, I kind of felt like I saw everyone getting up.
I, it was the same thing. I saw everyone getting up and starting to get on the dance floor and I was like, had that feeling of like, okay, am I gonna do what I did last time? And just like, let this overwhelm me until the point of [00:27:00] where I just gotta go. Or I could just take that energy and just go dance.
And I went and danced and I had a great time. And so I guess that was brings us back to how you can reframe things. ,
De’Vannon: I hope you popped your pussies. Aveoli. . . I did. Clearly left burn marks on the dance floor. For
Dillan: real though. I, I’m pretty sure I did. I think they had to repaint the venue. Hell
De’Vannon: yeah. Fuck.
That’s shit all the way. So, so another one that you talked about was like routines that you had in your life, like before drinking and after drinking. And so it sounds like, do you think like when you were into the drinking that maybe subconsciously or maybe intentionally that you rearranged your life so that you would always have access to the drink?
Or talk to me about these routines.
Dillan: I think the routines start at least for me, the routines started later in my drinking. [00:28:00]Career. In the beginning it was very just, you know, drink to have fun and it turns into drinking every night. You kind of find a way to drink every night when you’re younger.
You can find a party anywhere, the round kids your age. But once I get to like 25, 26 years old, it really turned into, okay, so-and-so’s busy. Oh, so-and-so’s busy. I’m just gonna go, you know, drink by myself at my house and that. You know that anytime you do anything regularly in your home, that creates a routine.
And so, you know, drinking just a little bit to calm my nerves, turns into drinking to fall asleep and making sure that I’m blacked out by 10:00 PM if I have to get up early the next day. Or if I, you know, if I have to wake up at like 4:00 AM for a flight, I gotta make sure I get blacked out by like 7:00 PM so I’m like knocked out by eight.
It’s like those. Shifts in my routine that I was centering around. Just drinking and just getting my fix was totally [00:29:00] disrupting everything else in my life, but it didn’t matter to me. As long as I was able to get my fix, then I could, you know, solve every other problem. But it was always get drunk first and then, you know, I’ll deal with that problem after I get a little buzz.
But the, the catch 22 of that is you get a little buzz. You don’t care. So you start to put off everything and you know, next thing you know, your water gets shut off every other month because you’re not, you’re forgetting to pay the bill here and there. And my electric was getting shut off a lot. Not because I didn’t have the money, but because I wasn’t remembering to pay the bill.
And, or I would see the notice saying it was late. And I’m like, I don’t feel like dealing with that right now. I, I still have some more time before they’ll actually shut me off. And it’s like the stupidest things that like you don’t think about when you have a clear head. And you just are living, it’s, you’re so clouded when you get to that point where you’re making those decisions where it’s like, I got, I, I, I can, I can pay for the light bill right now, but it’s, I’m too wasted or I’m not drunk enough to deal with it, and then I’m getting too drunk to [00:30:00] even deal with the website.
So it’s like, it’s just get, everything’s getting pushed off. So I was just pushing off everything for years and years and years and years, and.
De’Vannon: So it sounds like this routine crept up on you before you realized it.
Dillan: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Good way to say it. It’s like if you don’t, you don’t. I wasn’t just like one day like, okay, I’m gonna start my drinking here.
It was like all of that stuff kind of happened organically. It was like, it just happens naturally. It’s almost like the way you think, like, oh, I need to go to sleep now to get my, if I wanna get six hours of sleep, like that was my way of thinking. But for drinking, Like, I gotta start drinking now so I could be drunk by this time.
And it, it’s become second nature. I, but like you said, it was like, I didn’t go into it with the intent of making these schedules for myself. It just happened.
De’Vannon: It just happened. Well, I’m glad it not happened for you. .
Dillan: Me too.
De’Vannon: Oh, and I love the [00:31:00] transparency of your podcast. And I feel like it’s so beneficial to people who are struggling with alcohol because they will not feel alone.
There’s so much feelings of isolation in this world. You know? That’s why I do what I do too, to be super transparent because it’s, it’s so not true because the people around us are going through so much. It’s just like, When I was younger, we were too busy partying and doing all the drugs and being cute and trying to see how skinny we can get.
Nobody was really talking about real life issues and stuff like that. And so then when real life problems and issues happened to me, I was thinking I was the only one. And really that wasn’t true. Right? So, you know, I gotta open my mouth for more than sucking dick, y’all. We have, we have to do better.
Dillan: better. Well, I’m very happy that you’re using a good platform for good in spreading your story as well.
De’Vannon: Yes. And so, So we, so you talked about FOMO in one of your shows, y’all, and that’s fear of [00:32:00] missing out. So, so when you start, it sounds like when you first started the sober journey, maybe you thought that there were some places you wouldn’t have been able to go anymore, that you think you might lose some friends.
You know, what, what did you think you might miss out on?
Dillan: I, my biggest thing was like like weddings. I, like I talked about before, that was like, I didn’t know how to like go to a wedding or anything like that. . And like, just like the fear of missing out of just going to, you know, see friends at clubs and bars and things like that because it is such a popular destination for socialization is to just go and drink.
So I was, you know, unfortunately I did lose a lot of friends just because that’s wasn’t my main topic of interest anymore. So I, I did miss out on a lot, but at, in the same time, I think I gained, you know, more about myself learning. I tried not to polarize everything as such good and bad. I didn’t think of it as like a bad thing.
It’s [00:33:00] just, it is what it is. But it does, you know, the fear of missing out is still there. But that’s always just gonna be like, humans are curious by nature. You know, we’re always gonna be like, what could have been if I did this? Or if I was still drinking, where would I be? Would I be, you know, living my life to the extent and doing all the things that I fear I’m missing out of because I’m not drinking?
And then I kind of stop thinking about it , when I frame it that. Mm-hmm.
De’Vannon: How did it feel to lose friends that you feel hurt, betrayed, relieved
Dillan: Kind of a mixture of all of that. It’s in the beginning, you’re like you kind of think like, everyone’s gonna support me on my journey. All my, you know, but I had all, a lot of.
Drunk friends like they were, that’s, you know, that’s what they did. And a lot of them did support me and do, and you know, most of them did openly say like, you’re doing the right thing. This is good for you. [00:34:00] But you know, naturally, just because we’re not hanging out, just kind of. You know, disappear and they fade away.
And then you kind of get that feeling of like a little bit afterwards you’re, you’re getting angry cuz you’re like, well damn I haven’t talked to that person in two months and I bet you, I bet you damn wells cuz I’m not drinking. And then you start to get that feeling. And that does give you a sense of like, feeling betrayed by people you once trusted.
But I mean, that’s like you said. Then you move on kind of into the next phase and you’re like, okay, you know what? I’m relieved. This is for the best. You know, I’m gonna do me, I can, you know, take this time to focus on me and not worry about them. I don’t like to think of it as, I lost a lot of friends though, because they’re still there.
You know, social media, you don’t really lose anyone nowadays. They’re still there. I just, you know, You know, change the energy of the friendship. It’s just, you know, it’s online now. . [00:35:00]
De’Vannon: Okay. Hey, I guess
Dillan: you reframed It does suck though. Yeah, it does suck though. I’m not, I’m not trying to sugarcoat it too much.
It, I mean, but it’s, it’s life. Say Lavie, you know, it goes on, you just have to look at it that way and not as like, oh, I lost everyone. It’s like, ah, fresh start. It’s a new
De’Vannon: beginning forever. Spring baby. Forever spring.
Dillan: Mm-hmm. . Absolutely. Let’s talk
De’Vannon: about sex, baby. Oh lord. Okay. No hole in the hole. . And so, so on your show, you were mentioning, like you were paralleling the difference between like drunk sex, not drunk sex.
Mm-hmm. you feel like there’s a, a change in, in, like in your sex life for, for, for the better or worse since you stopped drinking? Did, was there a difference for you?
Dillan: Well, yeah, I think, well, towards the end of my drinking I was actually having issues with [00:36:00] my sex life, well, my sex drive I was having issues with.
I couldn’t, you know, Even get hard really, cuz I was just, I was drunk too much. It was just like I couldn’t do it right. And I couldn’t hold an erection. So that was started, that was another red flag of just what was wrong. And I was, I couldn’t control my bladder. I was peeing the bed all the time.
It was, and so getting into being sober and starting to like, regain control of my body. Is great and then it all comes with, you know, being aligned and aligning yourself again after you get sober. Cuz you can’t just get sober and expect everything to fall into place. You gotta do the work and, you know, I had to literally align my, my sexual shocker and get it, you know, back into the place it’s supposed to be.
And. Not treat sex the way I was treating it in the past and, you know, thinking like, oh, I had to be, you know, drunk to like even ex, you know, have fun or be good at it, or at least be a little [00:37:00]tipsy to be the right partner. You just experienced it a different way. I had a lot of resentment towards sex when I got sober, cuz of how I had been viewing sex for so long that once I got sober and saw it for what it was and saw it as a beautiful act, you know, I treated it a lot differently and a lot more sacred than I was before.
And just, you know, I just treated my whole, the whole energy was more sacred to me. I guess that was what I’m trying to say. It is great though. It’s much, it’s much better experience for me now that I’m more in tune with it than before where it’s kind of just like a wham bam. Thank you ma’am. Now I feel like you know, when I experience it now it’s, you know, very much a spiritual experience and fully engaging all of my body into this act, if that makes sense.
De’Vannon: Yeah. All of your body, all your breathing, all of your awareness, all of your [00:38:00]consciousness,
Dillan: yes. Yeah. I’m not like putting my consciousness somewhere else and putting my body on autopilot. It’s like, you know, I’m in my body experiencing it.
De’Vannon: Okay. I’m here for the conscious, conscious love making and sexual explorations and experiences and
Dillan: things. Right, right. There was a time though I was celibate for a long, long, long, long time. like years because of, I just couldn’t do it. I didn’t want to, and I, you know, just body image issues at the time.
That’s a whole other topic, but the, it was part of the drinking as well.
De’Vannon: The celibacy came after you began to get sober, or was it during
Dillan: the drinking? It was during it all kind of blended together towards the end of the alcohol and the beginning of sobriety that I was pretty celibate and abstaining from relationships and sex, not on purpose.
It just kind of was happening. I didn’t really, I wasn’t like , I just wasn’t seeking [00:39:00] it.
De’Vannon: I’ve been through that before. You know,
Dillan: you have to be selfish every once in a while and just be like, you know what? I can’t do anything . I just, I just don’t wanna do anything with anyone. I just want to focus on me.
De’Vannon: I don’t view that as selfish.
I view that as more like self-sacrificial. Hmm.
Dillan: Interesting. Oh,
De’Vannon: I view it as great discipline and great restraint because you know, it’s so easy to go get a piece of ass somewhere these days. You can order it like, like a, like an Uber or Lyft or some shit. You just open an app and order it and the ass will come through the door like you don’t
But see, I don’t know. You say it, it’s like, it’s like, I guess we just see it differently when you say restraint, I never really see myself having to like restrain or wanting to like restrain myself from. Going, I get I, but I’ve never was like that. Even when I was a drinker, I was never really like promiscuous or like wanting to like seek out another person’s comfort, which I think goes a lot to like child trauma history.
But that’s a whole nother topic as [00:40:00] well.
De’Vannon: what happened in
Dillan: childhood? , oh God. Very, We’ll, just briefly, just religious parents, abusive, physically, emotionally abusive that kind of deal. Southern Baptist. Ooh just, yeah, that kind of you Yeah. You get it.
De’Vannon: Jesus Christ on the throne. One of my greatest struggles is I’m very like, Like God, Jesus Christ, holy Ghost. But I’m very like anti-church and Antio Nation.
Dillan: Absolutely. I deal
De’Vannon: with So you too. Yeah. Yeah. I deal with so many people who have been on the receiving end of like religious and church trauma, like I was too.
And it is so hard. Like they, they [00:41:00] carry so much pain and I’ve once carried it too. It’s so hard to get them to. To be able to have a conversation or to think about God without it being like a searing pain in their chest. Yeah. You
Dillan: know, they have an image of a God that’s just, that they’re so ingrained in their brain that they can’t hear anymore attributes to God because they just don’t believe it.
It’s not there.
De’Vannon: Right. So the physical people who, who once represented God to them, hurt them, lie to them, misinformed them, you know? But when you’re new in the faith, that’s what you have. You know, as you grow, then you begin to understand, just like with any sort of educational growth, you know, I don’t actually need the professor anymore.
I, I can do this shit myself. Yeah, thanks bitch. Juices, , but you know, But churches aren’t like that. They, they, they, they treat you like you gotta stay there and constantly learn from, from that pastor forever for the rest of your life. And I’m all like, that doesn’t make any sense. [00:42:00] Church is a school. You’re going there to fucking learn.
Why Fuck can’t I graduate, bitch.
Dillan: Right. Oh, wow. That’s such a good way to say that.
De’Vannon: You know, because you have an agenda, then you need the money. You have, like all the shit you got going on. But, you know, in the, in the Bible even says that there comes a point that you will have need that no man teach you.
But they don’t teach that in churches, you know? Right.
Dillan: And so, but I just feel bad for the Bible. It’s been so pick and choose from that. It is just, it’s so, it’s a book that’s used against itself. It’s literally just so picked and choosed in different religions. Like it’s hard.
De’Vannon: I don’t wanna encourage my audience and everyone listen like I always do.
You know if it’s, fuck the church, fuck the church, but don’t be like, fuck God. You know? I made that, yeah, I made that mistake when I got kicked outta Lakewood Church for not being straightened. I went through like about five or six years of just silence in between me and heaven because I wasn’t as mature spiritually as I thought I was, and I couldn’t separate the bad thing.
[00:43:00] Joel Osteen and his church did to me. I couldn’t separate that from God, you know? And so I really, really don’t want people to fall into that trap because it was just a very bitter way for me to be living. And it did not serve me at all. . Mm-hmm. , right? Not all. You know, they’re gone on writing more books and selling more arenas than making more millions, and I’m bitter and pissed off at them and, you know, using drugs to numb the pain, not even realizing it.
So, mm. So let’s talk about hiding drinking, because one of your shows, you talked about that. Now I know what it’s like to have a bunch of syringes and pipes and shit that I don’t want bitches to find, you know, tucked away or whatever the case may be, . But you know, you have, you know, it’s not uncommon to go in someone’s house and all the bottles are displayed on a beautiful bar, you know?
Was there a point that you felt like you had to hide your drinking? If so, why and how did you do it?
Dillan: The, I, I didn’t hide it most of the time. I’ve always been very proud of myself and [00:44:00]proud person in general, but there was times where I did notice myself starting to hide it. I had a, a group of, or a couple friends live with me for one point when they were in the middle of buying a house, and this is probably like eight, nine years ago.
And this is probably the first time that anyone had ever, ever been on the inside of my. Because I know I’ve been, I was single for so long and this was someone coming into and, you know, seeing my life and. You know, start, that’s whenever the, the next day they’re like, oh, we noticed that you got home last night at like midnight, but there’s like an empty wine bottle in the f in the trash and like two empty beer cans.
Like, did you have a little party? Like, what happened? And I was like, Oh no, . I just, you know, got off work and came home and drank a bottle of wine and two beers, like like, so then the next night I’m like, fuck these people in my fucking house. And I’m like hiding, like stashing bottles away. And I’m like, [00:45:00] to dare them.
I just wanted to come home at midnight and have a fucking drink and go to sleep. And now they’re judging me in my house. So there , there was a time I started hiding it. Whenever I was, you know, living with other people and they actually got to be on the inside. And then I start to see the, you know, public opinion of what I’m doing is not exactly normal
De’Vannon: Oh, I would’ve read them for Phil. I’m like, no, bitch, we’re not doing that. We are not doing that.
Dillan: They were, they were actually the ones that when we were talking about earlier external sources, you know, trying to influence you to go get help, they were actually some of the people that after living with me for a couple months, that they wanted me to go get help.
And it was a very unsuccessful attempt with me and getting professional help to stop drinking .
De’Vannon: No, everybody’s gotta make those decisions on their own. Mm-hmm. you know, good counselors, good therapists and mental health therapists [00:46:00] always are asking, you know, well, what do you want to do? You know, what is your, what is, you know, how do you wanna proceed?
You know, so that you, so that the person always has ownership of whatever direction the mistakes, friends and families make when you’re dealing with people. You might consider to be an addict or an alcoholic. I hate those terms, you know, to my, yeah, I same. There’s someone in your opinion, who does it more than they should, you know, trying to rush them into rehab and into this and into that, because you feel like they should, first of all, I think it’s inherently selfish.
Mm-hmm. And then it’s not gonna work. And it’s selfish because the family member or friend are doing it because they want to feel better. You know, they can’t stand to see what we’re going through. They want that pain to go away. So let’s hurry up and show you into one of these treatment facilities and what the fuck
That’s the only, honestly, just drives a little like wedge between the two. From the, from the person who’s using perspective, at least in my personal experience, it kind of [00:47:00] creates like some animosity. To that person after it’s over, especially if it wasn’t successful . It’s like, okay, like what are you trying to interfere with in my life?
I’m a freaking adult and you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. . .
De’Vannon: So friends and families are people who, by your assessment, you think are doing too much and they may be, the only thing you can do is just be there. Just be like, I’m here if you need anything. You don’t have to go support the habits and bring them their meth or their beer or whatever, but the judgment ain’t gonna work.
it’s, I’m gonna work.
Dillan: Absolutely not.
De’Vannon: Okay. So then as I mentioned earlier, I’ll circle back around to, to asking for help. , and I know it’s different for everybody, but talk to me about how do we know when it’s too much? Is there some sort of sign? Is it an inner voice? Do we clearly, if you can’t hold an erection and you’re, and you’re pissing in the bed, that might be an indication, right?
With alcohol, I know [00:48:00] it can like fuck with your blood pressure too, which can also fuck with an erection. So what, what, what do you, what are your thoughts on asking for help and when to know when to do?
Dillan: I think for, just for anyone, it, it’s just so, it’s such a unique journey that if you’re thinking if I should ask for help, it’s probably time to ask for help.
I mean, when I was Googling free rehab, no insurance, Like gay, I can’t stop drinking queer rehab, like that, that when you start Googling stuff like that, that’s when you probably should start finding help and seeking help. Like
and I was like searching things like I, like I would type in the Google search bar, Reddit, so I’d get my Reddit results. Reddit. Drinking every day. No erection, peeing, bed. People like me, . .
Dillan: No, there’s no one like that. I can’t find that anyone’s talking about that. Yeah. No. [00:49:00]Okay. Probably an issue.
De’Vannon: So then maybe this is like your subconscious, maybe like your body reaching.
you know, in a way cuz like the fingers are doing the typing and the mind’s doing the working, but it hasn’t yet clicked that the time for help has come somehow. Yeah.
Dillan: I it’s just, like I said, it’s very personal. There was plenty of times where I wanted to do something about it and I didn’t truly in my heart think I could.
I think whenever I gave myself my own confidence, I faked it. I just, you know, fake it till you make it, honestly works. Some with manifestation. I said, you know, I got this. I’m the shit I’m, and that helps me. That helped me a lot, just like not talking so down upon myself and telling myself, oh, but you need it, but you can’t do without this.
You can’t do without this. And instead just being like, you got this. You’re fine. You’re great. You’re doing perfect. You’re able to, just reframing the way I would talk to myself in my, the little voice in my head. [00:50:00] Just, you know, telling him to stop saying mean things and just start saying only nice things.
And try and just make it a little better in my head and clear out the cobwebs a little bit. I think that helped a.
De’Vannon: Whatever you can do. And another thing that will help people a lot is listening to the Silver Gay Podcast, .
Dillan: Yes, please. . God.
De’Vannon: God knows we need alternatives to to the anonymous movement.
It’s okay. So then the last thing we wanna talk about we’ll, and then on a super positive note, like some silver celebrities you live, look up to.
Dillan: Ooh, who I love RuPaul. I mean, RuPaul, I’ve not a, I love RuPaul’s show. He used to have a show a podcast called What’s the Tea? And I used to love listening to him talk about his sobriety and like the way he, he taught me one of my favorite, you know, comebacks to when someone offers me a drink now.
So when someone offers me like, Hey, can I [00:51:00] get you a drink? Instead of going to this long, like, oh, I’m sober. Cuz who the fuck wants to hear that when they’re trying to have a good time? I just say, oh, I’ve had enough. Thank. That’s it. That doesn’t go into anything. I don’t have to explain anything. I don’t have to go anywhere with it.
I’ve had enough. Thank you. And like I just, RuPaul is one of my favorite sober celebs by far. And not even that like transparent about, he doesn’t even really talk about being sober as like his main thing. But he’s been sober over 20, 25 years now, I think. Yeah, I
De’Vannon: didn’t know that. But that comeback is, is like It is a polarizing statement and it’s one that works in your favor because if someone were to try to overcome that statement, it would be somebody who’s disrespecting your boundaries.
Dillan: Absolutely. Yes. Yes. And then, or they could just take it as a joke and let, but yes, you’re right. It’s a polarizing statement in that, in that sense that you can’t, you can’t have anything bad to say to it or else you’re gonna be the bad guy. , right?[00:52:00]
De’Vannon: absolutely. So I love that. I love everything about that.
Dillan: Oh, thanks. I’ve had enough . No further explanation
De’Vannon: right now. That enough may have been 20 years ago that I’ve had enough, but you don’t need to know all that .
Dillan: Yeah, yeah, right.
De’Vannon: Okay, so, so you see people, even the rich and famous are celebrities. You know, a lot of times in Hollywood, you know, you know, they catch a bad rap, you know? when we see in God bless her, you know, like Ms. Lindsay Lohan or, you know, certain, certain people,
you know, but not everybody, you know, in, in, in Hollywood is on like their fifth and 10th dui. You know, some people actually don’t do drugs and you know, and you see a lot of movies like Studio 54. , the Andy Warhol diaries, you know, whatever it is that you wanna watch. [00:53:00] And there’s always a lot of drugs and, and alcohol the way Hollywood is glamorized, you know, but not everybody, even on the big screen drinks or takes drugs.
Dillan: Right. And it’s, there’s a lot of people don’t even realize that I made a sh we made an episode going through all of the people that were sober and I can’t remember a lot of the names off the top of my head right now for some reason. Just cause I’m not, I don’t really, I’m not very good versed on a lot of.
Unless I care about them . But there are so many, there are so many out there that don’t drink or do anything and they still just get their job done. .
De’Vannon: That’s not to say they’re not doing everyone now, honey. Right, right. talking about getting, getting your freak on . Holly, we, Holly. Weird . Okay. There’s a lot of sex in Hollywood.
Hell’s yes. Okay. So that wraps up our delicious discussion here, but I’ll let you go ahead and have the last word [00:54:00] of wisdom, whatever you’d like to say to this globe.
Dillan: Mm. Oh my goodness. Wow. I think my last word of wisdom that I would just like to share with the world is to always think for yourself and question any feelings that you don’t feel are right.
And that can work with anything .
De’Vannon: Amen and amen. Y’all’s name is Dylan Gay from the Sober Gay Podcast. The website is the sober gay.com. You can find them at that website on Facebook, YouTube, but primarily Instagram. I look forward to having Dylan back on the show. Thank you so much for coming on today.
Have a rocking weekend, my friend.
Dillan: Thank you. You too. Thanks for having me.
De’Vannon: Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the Sex Drugs and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at [00:55:00] SexDrugsAndJesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at Davanon SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.
My name is De’Vannon, and it’s been wonderful being your host today. And just remember that everything is gonna be all right.