The Rev. Dr. Marcia Ledford is a civil rights attorney representing society’s most marginalized. An Episcopal priest, she earned her Doctor of Ministry in political theology from Pacific School of Religion. Dr. Ledford founded Political Theology Matters, LLC, to help the faithful develop public theology mission for greater social justice. She writes, speaks, teaches, and preaches about how to do political theology, all while being protected by the First Amendment. This episode marks the first of a series of three which will focus on the bible and the LGBTQIA+ Community or as I like to call us – the Alphabet Mafia! Dr. Ledford has written a phenomenal blog on here website PoliticalTheologyMatters.com and today we focus on the entry entitled PAUL MISUNDERSTOOD HOMOSEXUALITY AND HERE’S WHY. I really hope this helps someone…
INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):
· Discussion Of The “Clobber” Passages Used To Bash The LGBTQIA+ Community
· The Resources Found At PoliticalTheologyMatters.com
· Social Justice
· The Feminine Side Of God
· Seminary School Foolery
· Progressive Christians Defined
· The Division Of American Christianity
· What Is An Evangelical?
· Why The Apostle Paul MISUNDERSTOOD Homosexuality!!!
· Thoughts On The Billionaire Space Race
· Anachronisms And The Original Language Of The Bible
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[00:00:00] You’re listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to. And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right. At the end of the day, my name is De’Vannon and I’ll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world. As we dig into topics that are too risky for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what’s really going on in your.
[00:00:24] There was nothing on the table and we’ve got a lot to talk about. So let’s dive right into this episode.
[00:00:32] De’Vannon: The Reverend doctor led for it is a civil rights attorney representing society’s most marginalized and a Piskel priest. She earned her doctor of ministry and political theology from Pacific school of religion. Dr. Ledford found it political theology matters. To help the faithful develop public theology mission for greater social justice.
[00:00:54] She writes, speaks, teaches, and preaches about how to do political theology [00:01:00] all while being protected by the first amendment. This episode marks the first of a series of three, which will focus on the Bible in the LGBTQ plus community. Or as I like to call us the alphabet mafia. Dr. Ledford has written a phenomenal blog on our website, political theology matters.com.
[00:01:19] And today we focus on the injury entitled Paul misunderstood homosexuality. And here’s why I really hope this helps someone.
[00:01:31] Thank you so much, Marcia, for joining us today on the sex drugs and Jesus of podcast, and this is going to be a power hour and I’m so glad to have you here.
[00:01:43] Marcia: Well, thank you, Devon. And it is absolutely a pleasure. And thank you for the invitation.
[00:01:49] De’Vannon: Absolutely. Um, you’re a very well studied woman.
[00:01:53] You’re very passionate woman. You’re very consistent woman. And your work [00:02:00] speaks to the heart of a lot of what I’m trying to do, which is to get LGBTQ people, to be comfortable with themselves spiritually speaking, into accept themselves as a whole, to understand what the Lord really says about them and to fight politically if they have an inclination for that as well.
[00:02:20] And so I feel like you’ve have it all. And so tell us about that. Politically political theology matters.com, which seems to be your baby and, um, how that came to be and your passion there.
[00:02:40] Marcia: Sure. So if we roll the tape back a few decades, uh, when I was in my teens, I sensed a call to ordained ministry, but I wasn’t seeing a whole lot of women or, uh, at the pulpit pulpit or the altar.
[00:02:57] Uh, and then I came out and then [00:03:00] I was really sure there was not going to be a place for me is, uh, ordained clergy. So I decided to go into law because I thought that would be a way to help people. And I became a civil rights attorney and I did that for many years and I’m very glad I did because the experience, the learning and all of that is.
[00:03:23] Invaluable. I’ve been able to help a lot of people and be a part of some really important cases along the way, especially where LGBTQ suffrage is concerned. Um, but that call of the holy spirit would not leave me alone basically. So in my late forties, I finally said to the holy spirit, okay, I’m going to do this, but you have to help me.
[00:03:50] And she did. So, uh, I went to seminary and then I had, uh, a ministry in [00:04:00] Southwest Detroit where our Latino population is. And I became absolutely appalled to van. And at what I saw our government doing to families to little children, being separated from their parents who are deported. Um, I, uh, seldom am I’m at a loss for words, but this really struck me at a very deep place.
[00:04:22] And I think it’s partly because I know what it’s like to be a second class citizen in this country as a lesbian. And, uh, for example, in 2014, Linden, I finally got married legally after being together for 32 years. So, um, I decided to study political theology and I, uh, once again, went back to school and got a, uh, doctor of ministry and political theology, and I started political theology matters as a [00:05:00] base for me to write, speak, teach, preach, whatever consult, uh, about how we can become more active as faith based voices in the public square for greater social justice.
[00:05:15] So that’s how it came to be. And you can learn a lot more about political theology matters at the website
[00:05:23] De’Vannon: right now. I heard you refer to the holy spirit or that’s as I call them the holy ghost. Um, as she, now I’ve only heard that I think. When I was at a unity church, uh, here in Baton Rouge. And, um, I think it’s the coolest thing in the world, uh, because God does embody both the masculine and the feminine, but a lot of people don’t look at him that way.
[00:05:49] So can you tell me more about why you choose to refer to the holy ghost as she, I assume you refer to God and as she as well, I
[00:05:59] Marcia: [00:06:00] usually take, um, a more neutral approach to the Trinity. Um, for me personally, the holy spirit is female, uh, because she’s nurturing and she looks after us and takes care of us.
[00:06:14] All of which are some of our very finest maternal instincts. That’s not to say that a lot of men don’t have that, but, uh, that’s how I look at it. And the Hebrew word for spirit is Rudolph, which is a feminine word. And wisdom is said to have been with God, the creator at the beginning, which also has a feminine, um, uh, name, uh, whole coma.
[00:06:42] And, uh, in Greek it’s Sophia, which is also a feminine. So for me, that aspect, uh, has a very feminine sense to it. I think of God as more, um, all encompassing and sort of gender less. [00:07:00] And of course, you know, Jesus has been referred to as Jesus, Sophia there’s even a book called Jesus Sophia. Uh, because I think that he has, uh, very much got male and female aspects to him.
[00:07:18] He w he walked the earth as a man. Um, but he was, uh, not conceived in the normal way. And we don’t know what kind of chromosomes were involved in his concession.
[00:07:30] De’Vannon: Fair. Yeah. Thank you so much for that break down. And I love how you worked in those Hebrew words there. See everybody I told y’all she was smart
[00:07:44] now. Um, Marsha, tell us, um, what exactly is political theology?
[00:07:51] Marcia: All right. That’s a, that’s a wonderful question. Um, so it’s pretty simple, really. And I use a, [00:08:00] um, a three prong test, and this is a little bit of a joke for any listeners out there who are lawyers. Um, we learn how to apply the law often by, by applying tests that have prongs or, uh, sections.
[00:08:17] So lawyers love prongs. So whenever you hear somebody, um, explaining something legally, uh, and they’re using prongs you’ll know that’s where it comes in. Uh, so the first prong is speaking a faith based message. So something that has to do with our teaching, and I’m not talking just about Christianity, of course, we’re talking about any faith tradition because they’re all protected under the first amendment.
[00:08:48] We, yes, we live in a country founded by a Judeo-Christian, um, uh, mindset. There’s no question about that. Um, and we could even say that [00:09:00] America has been an evangelical or Protestant theocracy for, uh it’s since its inception. Um, I don’t think that’s falling far too far from the mark. Um, but speaking of faith based message is the first prom.
[00:09:19] So here’s an example. Jesus said, feed my sheep. Now was he just talking about, you know, giving somebody a fish for the day? I don’t think so. I think he was talking about take care of each other, take care of my flock and all of us at times can help somebody and all of us at times need help from somebody else.
[00:09:43] So I think that’s what Jesus is talking about. And this is a very powerful message that we can incorporate into our advocacy for greater social justice. So speaking some sort of a faith, uh, [00:10:00] concept to, uh, justify our reasons for our advocacy is the first thing. The second thing is in public. So it could be it city hall or the halls of Congress.
[00:10:13] It could be in a public park, it could be on a podcast. It could be, you know, many, many various places, unless there is a reasonable expectation of privacy. So, um, we take those two things, faith based message and, uh, some public airing of that message. And the third prong is, um, sort of subordinate, um, to as broad an audience as possible.
[00:10:46] I mean, we ideally, we want to reach a lot of people, but we can’t always do that. And that’s okay. And sometimes we reach audiences, but that are very, very similar. But they are very, very interested in our, our topic [00:11:00] and our message, which in many ways is better than, you know, a scatter gun approach. So faith-based message in the public square to as broad an audience as possible are the three elements of political theology and theology is the study of God.
[00:11:18] So it doesn’t necessarily mean just Christian or just Jewish or, you know, just Islam. It’s, uh, any study of the divine power.
[00:11:29] De’Vannon: Yeah. Hallelu. I, uh, attended seminary in Houston for a couple of years and I was at the time, this was before I got kicked out of church for being LGBT. I was like all going to become like, um, a worship leader, probably with a master’s in divinity.
[00:11:49] And I was going through the whole theology thing and, um, I wish I had had a better school. You know, I had to leave this particular school because they were, they were throwing [00:12:00] shade at the, uh, at the church that, uh, at the time I attended, uh, Lakewood church in Houston, Texas. And, uh, and they were very, I think, jealous of Joel O’Steen and everything.
[00:12:10] And, and so they were talking shit about him, you know, my professor at the theology school. And then also I left the ology school because they were telling us how they like to control people and just very blatant and bold and out there with it. And just one day in class, he just said it as an afterthought.
[00:12:31] And I think he came from like a Baptist background and he was like, yeah, we, we, we, we like to control the congregation. And I just kind of was like, wait, what? And I was like the only person in class who seemed to have a problem with this. Everyone else is like nodding their heads. And agreed. And I’m all like, this is not the golden compass or any other, you know, like movie that reminded me of that was made about church domination of the minds of people.
[00:12:56] And so I left, never looked back then I [00:13:00] got thrown out of Lakewood anyway. And so, um, I’m glad you had a better experience in theology and then you were able to go on and finish your,
[00:13:09] Marcia: uh, and you know, you, you and I can talk about this, uh, as a sidebar. Uh, but, um, yeah, I was very careful in where I decided to go to seminary.
[00:13:21] I started at a seminary in Detroit, uh, that was ecumenical. It w I’m in a Piskel priest. So that’s, um, the Episcopal church in the United States. And it is part of the, um, the Anglican communion, which was. Started in England, the church of England. Uh, so I was, the Episcopal church is very progressive where LGBT people are concerned.
[00:13:47] And of course we ordain LGBT people. Uh, we passed a specific resolution about ordaining, transgender persons in 2012. So we have been at the cutting edge for a [00:14:00] long, long time. So I was very selective because the first school I was at, there was some homophobia. Uh, and I just decided to finish, uh, at an Episcopal school and it was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made for myself.
[00:14:15] So we could talk more about that, but, uh, there are places for you to finish your master of divinity. Absolutely. And they will be pleased have you there, and we’ll see your gifts and abilities.
[00:14:28] De’Vannon: Wow. That sounds like a dream.
[00:14:30] Marcia: Yeah. And it’s a reality. It can be reality. So we’ll talk.
[00:14:35] De’Vannon: Yeah. So thank you so much for that.
[00:14:37] Um, tell us what a progressive Christian is as opposed to a non progressive
[00:14:44] Marcia: Christian. Well, it’s, uh, you know, that’s, uh, it’s a phrase that has Devon and a very fluid definition because not all ASP aspects of it apply to all persons, [00:15:00] but. Uh, to my mind. And I’m pretty open about how I’m defining a progressive Christian, but this is somebody who believes that women can and should be ordained according to their gifts of the spirit.
[00:15:16] Again, LGBT people can be ordained according to their gifts and abilities of the spirit and LGBT people should be able to marry with the blessing from the church, which the Episcopal church currently has as a blessing for a marriage ceremony for same-sex couples. Um, and so there’s that, uh, the Episcopal church teaches that to every abortion.
[00:15:47] There is a tragic dimension, but the church is unequivocally in support of women being able to receive safe medical, uh, reproductive healthcare. [00:16:00] Um, the Episcopal church has deemed racism to be a sin that we must account for, and that we, uh, we want to undertake that which needs to happen in order for us to create a society with a level playing field.
[00:16:20] Uh, let’s see, creation care is also very important and, uh, eradicating poverty and violence and, uh, trafficking. So progressive people typically, uh, agree with all or most of these various tenants. Uh, but typically they’re, uh, they’re open-minded and inclusive and accepting.
[00:16:46] De’Vannon: Well, I’m a progressive believer is how I would describe myself.
[00:16:53] Um, I have chosen to abandon the word Christian because of what I had. [00:17:00] Uh, the concept of Christianity has become, especially here in America, is people crawl all over themselves, especially are, uh, as they say on the hill, our colleagues on the other, on the other side of the aisle, um, um, uh, you know, trying to tell everybody else, you know, how to live their life in what not.
[00:17:23] So the division of American Christianity is why I don’t want to be called a Christian. I choose to just be called a believer like they did back in the day, right before Antioch. So how, how, in your opinion, Marsha did American Christianity become so divided in the first place?
[00:17:42] Marcia: I think it’s always been divided.
[00:17:44] I think we’re just seeing the cracks in a system that we have consistently spackled over across the centuries. Uh, there’s always been to America. There’s been free white men initially, [00:18:00] uh, and black slaves. Um, the church was separate by color. Uh, the black church grew out of slavery. Um, and now we are seeing these, these divisions coming to the fore at a time when, uh, African-Americans are now, um, millionaires and able to, uh, um, bequeath lots of money and they’re gaining power and it’s, uh, making, uh, some white folks really, really nervous.
[00:18:43] And they typically are people who are in power and don’t want to let white privilege and indeed white supremacy slipped through their fingers. And that’s why Trump was so attractive to so many white evangelicals because [00:19:00] they see what’s happening. And as America, as a people of color in America become more educated and more powerful and more, uh, equipped to fully participate in all aspects of society makes a lot of folks nervous and they view him, uh, as sort of the last bastion, the last great stand to hold onto white supremacy.
[00:19:30] And so that’s always been in the church. It’s always been in the church and in the south during slavery, white preachers would, you know, call up a fusions and say, slaves, obey your masters. And, you know, that’s pretty much all that was preached by white preachers to black folk. Hmm. Now black vote, please preach in black folk, talked about Moses and the Exodus and God providing liberation and salvation.
[00:19:59] So [00:20:00] it was a very, very, um, different ethos that was going on in the country and its inner, I hate to say this, but uh, this, uh, sense of entitlement of white people to exploit black people is in our social DNA. And that’s why we see something like George Floyd happen or Brianna Taylor or because there’s fear and there’s a distrust and it’s been in us as a society for a long time.
[00:20:46] So do I think the church is divided? Yeah. Do I think this is a new problem? Absolutely not. It’s been with us since well, before we had slaves in this country for 156 years before the [00:21:00] declaration of independence. So there was never a time at the beginning of this country where we didn’t have slavery.
[00:21:09] De’Vannon: And so, oh, go ahead.
[00:21:12] No, you go ahead. Nope. We’re here to hear you.
[00:21:17] Marcia: I, I mean to, for people to sound surprised, um, and for, for people to, uh, fail, to understand that, uh, we have an appetite for lynching and we have an appetite for, um, taking justice into our own hands. I’m talking about white folks, uh, when we don’t like what’s going on.
[00:21:41] And that’s what we saw in January.
[00:21:46] De’Vannon: And fell. It sounds like including
[00:21:47] Marcia: a news, including
[00:21:48] De’Vannon: a news. I remember the news too. It sounds like, um, the whole taking the power in their hands. It sounds like that the whole Karen [00:22:00] movement, you know, she came out swinging and she still comes out swinging whatever she wants to take control. But I heard in your explanation was a lot of the problems that the Christian Church has had from back then.
[00:22:12] And now as the interpretation of scripture, and we’re going to get into a lot of that here in just a minute, it’s all on how we look at things. So the white people wanted to focus on Ephesians slaves, obey your masters, not considering the context of it, you know, cause you know, the, the Bible is, uh, is from the middle east.
[00:22:31] You know, the, it was, it wasn’t taken out of context is what they were doing. Right. The black people are going well, no, let, let my people go Pharaoh, you know, all the slave master pharaohs. So it was all about how you look at things now, explain to people exactly what an evangelical is, what would they’re supposed to be versus, and then what they became for Donald Trump, [00:23:00] because then you hear that all over the media all the time.
[00:23:03] Evangelical evangelical is what the fuck is it?
[00:23:09] Marcia: Okay. So I was raised in the American Baptist tradition, which, uh, even today I would say is on the far, far more progressive end of the various flavors of Baptist denominations that there are because there’s a lot. Um, and so. They’re typically the, um, the highlight or the, the singular feature that distinguishes evangelicals, I think is this concept of baptism as being born again, um, uh, believers, baptism, where you need to say something like I accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior.
[00:23:56] And so once you are saved, [00:24:00] you are saved, uh, forever and you are promised to turn a life. Um, that’s not unlike my tradition in the Episcopal church, however, we baptize babies. So, uh, Baptist don’t like that. They, you have to make a reasonable decision on your own to be baptized. Whereas in our tradition, we will baptize an infant, but they have got parents to raise them up in the tree.
[00:24:27] And also when they come of age, they are confirmed. Will they make some of these, uh, well, they take the baptismal covenant. Um, but what I love about our tradition is you are born into the faith versus having to be, uh, subjected to some sort of a formula. If you will. There’s also a much stronger, uh, component of, uh, uh, taking the Bible.
[00:24:56] Literally. Uh, in some [00:25:00] instances we would call this fundamentalism where there’s absolutely no room for interpretation. And, um, so, and, and that has been used to subordinate women wives, submit to your husbands slaves, obey your masters, all the stuff that comes in the epistle. Which is much more about salvation and rules and regulations.
[00:25:27] The gospels are more about grace, compassion and forgiveness. So the, the evangelical, um, mindset is much more in the pistols than it is about the gospels. Um, and the particularly the liturgical traditions, Roman Catholicism, the Episcopal church Lutheranism, um, we, uh, orthodoxy, we are very much more about the gospels.
[00:25:58] So those are some of the [00:26:00] differences.
[00:26:00] De’Vannon: So when, so when you say that they are born into it, do you mean like a physical birth or a spiritual birth where you’re saying they’re born into your denomination?
[00:26:10] Marcia: Well, when a child is born in our congregation, Uh, that child is brought to us at an age, you know, sometimes as young as a month, but, you know, as infants and they’re baptized, uh, they’re not making a self profession, their godparents make that on their behalf and are responsible for helping to bring them up, uh, into the church life.
[00:26:35] And so the life of Christian discipleship and then the child wants a teenager is confirmed and makes his or her own affirmation of faith and is the Bishop lays hands on. And, uh, the child is, uh, that’s the end of the form, the formal formation. Into the Christian life. So that’s what [00:27:00] I mean. Whereas if I’m born in the Baptist church, when I was born, the, uh, pastor would put Rosebud on the pulpit for every baby born into the congregation.
[00:27:10] So Rosebud was on the pulp at the first Sunday after I was born. And then I was dedicated at some point early on, uh, but there was no ritual or a sacramental aspect to that. And then when I felt old enough, when I felt ready, I went up to the front for an altar call, um, and profess that Jesus was my personal savior.
[00:27:35] And then I did a baptism class and then I was baptized.
[00:27:41] De’Vannon: I sometimes wonder so across so many different denominations with so many different rights rituals and passages, you know, like where did it all come from? I suppose most people would say some leader was divinely giving a message by God to do it.
[00:27:57] And my compassion is for people who are [00:28:00] not Christians, or maybe don’t believe in anything. When they’re examining all the world, all the world’s religions, Christianity, it looks like a clusterfuck and it’s very confusing and everything like that. And so I’m going to be doing some work, you know, in the coming months too, on my second book that try to go in there and clear some of that out.
[00:28:27] And so I love your website because it, it, I think it takes a lot of leaps and strides in that direction as well. And I think people like you and me who believe in Jesus, who are willing to say the church is fucked, but you know, there’s still a way, you know, to God. We don’t the, the, this fuckery in the news and everything doesn’t represent everybody who calls on the Lord.
[00:28:52] And, and we’re going to keep saying that loud and proud and stand against the confusion that seems to have in golf, what it means to be a [00:29:00] Christian these days.
[00:29:02] Marcia: Yes. Amen. My brother. And that’s one of the most important parts of my message. I am very ticked off about the way that Christianity is represented in the public square, which is part of what Stokes this mission.
[00:29:18] Because I am here to say, and many, many like me and you are here to say, this is not what Jesus was about. And this is not the discipleship to which we are called. We are called to repair the breach. We are called to be a healing bond. In a, in a broken world, we are not called to be mean and exclusive and destructive and controlling and abusive.
[00:29:48] And so, uh, it, it really rankles me that progressive Christians are always, almost always on the reactive instead of putting our [00:30:00] own messages out there about the love and the incredible love and compassion of Jesus. So we’ve got a lot, it’s a tall order because we’re really bad at this.
[00:30:12] De’Vannon: Well, we’re just starting with like you and me.
[00:30:16] We’ll get it done. So I’m going to go ahead and switch gears right now. Typically your blog within your web fabulous blog I’ve ever read in my life. It’s colorful that great picture. You know, it’s high lit well and everything like that, but more importantly, it tackles issues that are super relevant. And we’re actually going to do a three series, three separate podcast interviews talking about things, revolving around LGBT QIA people and where we stand with God and exactly how to read the scriptures that people [00:31:00] have been used using to abuse us for years.
[00:31:05] Um, uh, I’m gonna read the titles of all three of them that we’re only going to talk about the first, the first one is called Paul misunderstood homosexuality. And here’s why I think that’s a very bold title. It’s important because so many people give Paul’s. Damn credit. And, um, and it’s important to get in there and to dismantle and break down exactly what the man was talking about.
[00:31:31] And to remember that he was just a man and that he was not the Lord. And then second one is going to be Leviticus lacks and understanding of loving LGBT relationships. And the third one is going to be stopped clobbering, LGBT people with the Bible exclamation mark. And, um, so those two are going to be another episodes, but the blogs are already live at Marsha’s website.
[00:31:54] And all of that will be listed in the show notes. Also in [00:32:00] another caveat, before we start talking about the apostle Paul from your blog as well, just briefly, I wanted us to talk about your most recent blog post, which is called stepping over the poor to reach the moon. Since we just had this whole race to race, to space this week, I thought it was a hot damn tone, deaf a mess, but I wanted you to kinda tell us what you thought about it since this is trending, like right now as we speak.
[00:32:29] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:32:30] Marcia: You thought the blog was a hot mess or, yeah.
[00:32:33] De’Vannon: Yeah. Sorry. I’m sorry. Maybe I wasn’t clear. Now. I thought Jeff Bezos and that other fool all up on television in the middle of a global pandemic, when people can’t eat, racing the space and making a whole big show out of it. And the, and the bullshit way Jeff Bezos was like, Hey, thanks everyone at Amazon for pain.
[00:32:54] I thought they were tone deaf. And I thought they were hot. Damn. Yeah. In Middlefield. [00:33:00] Okay.
[00:33:03] Marcia: Did you read my blog? Yep. Okay. So I, uh, I didn’t really know a lot about this. I’ve I’ve been, uh, started. Uh, sequestering myself to try and get my book finished. So I have not been paying a lot of attention to the news, but when I resurfaced the other day, I read all about this as you call it hot mess, and that’s indeed what it is.
[00:33:29] And I thought, okay, well, before I just automatically condemn, uh, the use of private resources to gain knowledge about space, let me read about it. So I get all the issues about, you know, all this money feeding the poor I’m I’m right on it with everybody. Who’s so disgusted, but I did read an op-ed, uh, by Don Lincoln who works at the fair me accelerator laboratory.[00:34:00]
[00:34:00] And he did talk about how this is not the first time that private interests have been involved in, uh, developing space technology. And there are some real benefits to humanity by being able to. Um, expedite learning how to launch rockets that can carry much heavier payloads, like to get a Hubble telescope into space, to monitor the health of the earth.
[00:34:26] Uh, you know, that’s obviously a very important key, uh, concept and, uh, private enterprise is able to, uh, develop space technology much faster than NASA because there’s so much bureaucracy and all of that. So anyway, um, there are some true benefits to private enterprise developing better air aeronautical space equipment.
[00:34:56] Uh, what really bothers me, [00:35:00] what th the, the gospel story, the parable that Jesus told that popped in my head was Lazarus and the rich man. Right. And I think that, uh, it’s one of Jesus’s most brilliant. And damning, uh, parables that he cooks up in order to teach people about inequity and, uh, a lack of compassion.
[00:35:25] And so, uh, you know, here’s, here’s the rich man in his fine purple robes. And of course, purple dye was just very rare and sought after it was the color of royalty. Uh, it was a really big deal. It doesn’t sound like a big deal to us when reread it with 21st century eyes, but to wear purple linen and have splendor every day was, you know, most people were just living on a dirt floor and just scraping by.
[00:35:56] So we’ve got very, you know, something’s [00:36:00] never changed and we’ve got a lot of the same sort of things going on. We have this evolved ger and equity between rich and poor across the world. And here’s these two guys spending. A billion dollars to fly this thing into space. And so my take on it was, I think sometimes even though people are jerks, uh, that good things can come from what has happened with the blue origin rocket, which looks like a male member, I might say anyway.
[00:36:37] Um, so, uh, it looked like wealth porn to me when that thing was taking off anyway. Uh, but I, I think we can strike a balance. I think we can hopefully prevail upon Jeff Bezos and Elon mosque and who doesn’t employ [00:37:00] nearly as many people, um, that there, we have to be a good steward with what we’re blessed with.
[00:37:07] And that means we, it needs to be comprehensive. And the fact that Jeff Bezos has been, uh, very seriously involved in union busting and, um, treating his employees pretty badly. And then to have the temerity, the tone deafness, as you said to thank people who are, even though they work for his company are still having to have food stamps.
[00:37:33] It was pretty awful, right. Um, sorry. I think we need to get away from either right or wrong or either, or I think, uh, we need to prevail upon him to get his act together. Um, and hopefully he will, hopefully at some point somebody will get to him to explain to him that if this is all you’re going to do with your excess money, then this is not enough [00:38:00] here, here then.
[00:38:03] Yeah. And I think that will happen. You know, the Teamsters international Teamsters has targeted them. Uh, Amazon. And I think some of the big hitting unions are gonna make this really hard to, uh, defeat a union formalization, uh, in a subsequent time like it did in Bessemer, Alabama.
[00:38:22] De’Vannon: Well, his trip to space is very polarizing and my heart goes out to the people who do work for him.
[00:38:31] And people look up to any kind of celebrity or person who they think has more to them and really, really hang on their every word and action. And I know the great broke the hearts of the people who, like you said, are there, who work for food stamps. And my boyfriend’s one of his best friends over in Atlanta works at Amazon and he tells him the horror stories of what a hot fucking mess it is.
[00:38:55] And, um, And it’s less slap in the face, you know, [00:39:00] on the fly up there. He should have flown his ass up there quietly, you know, with little pomp and circumstance and just let it been about research or send someone else. But the way he did it flashing his purple robes as you, uh, yes.
[00:39:15] Marcia: It’s categorized Pinos, stepping over the, you know, the poor dying man that, that just makes me
[00:39:24] De’Vannon: crazy.
[00:39:25] Right. Or he could have just done it and just shut the fuck up about it, or just not mentioned they employed. I mean, you know,
[00:39:33] Marcia: it’s just, so what a gaff, what an incredible gaff, but perhaps an insensitive go ahead.
[00:39:42] De’Vannon: Perhaps that’s what was needed to provoke that enough action to get him to get something done.
[00:39:47] Because I think that that really angered a lot of people. And like a very bitter way that they’re not gonna just like get over, you know, like [00:40:00] tomorrow,
[00:40:03] Marcia: but this is also very much related to, uh, what we’re seeing emerge say out of the black lives movement, black lives matter movement. This is about exposing, um, you know, incredibly rich capitalists who want to keep the system in place so they can continue to exploit and do basically whatever the hell they want, no matter the farm and difficulty and suffering, it causes for other people.
[00:40:36] This is all about, you know, the underclass and this transcends color, but it’s about that. Um, his sense of entitlement and white supremacy to be able to treat people like this. So that he can, you know, have this vainglorious attempted, you know, becoming a new [00:41:00] son in the galaxy, uh, while other people, this is coming off the backs of other people who never signed up for this.
[00:41:12] It’s it’s about, um, you know, who’s good enough and who isn’t
[00:41:17] De’Vannon: well, let’s see what happens over the coming nine months or so. We’ll see what the fallout is.
[00:41:26] Marcia: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But this is why there’s been so much attention. Rightly so finally. I mean, how disgusted do we have to be? To start dealing with these inequities that live in our society, somewhat under an invisibility cloak from Harry Potter.
[00:41:48] You know, they just kind of, we even in bobbin or around. Yep. Why, why does something like George Floyd’s lynching [00:42:00] have to happen for us to get a clue?
[00:42:06] De’Vannon: Amen. And amen sister. So now we’re going to shift gears back to, uh, Mr. Paul, the apostle and how he misunderstood homosexuality. And here’s why now I love this blog because you, you dig really into the mentality. You touched on this earlier, how you were saying, like, some people have more in a pistol mindset, there’s more rules and regulations and seeing kind of a throwback to the old Testament in a way.
[00:42:34] And then some more gospel wishing strictly Jesus. Nobody else talking to speak of, and it’s more loving and things like that. And you say like, Paul has a focus on misconduct. You compare him to today’s kids. Today’s evangelicals. Now that that’s a strong comparison. May you talk about earlier what an evangelical is?
[00:42:58] And now you’re [00:43:00] putting Paul in that same boat to break that down to us. The people love their, their precious Paul, the apostle, and they quote him all the time, especially to tell us the people, what we’re not supposed to be doing and, and women. And, uh, so how was Paul like? Um, Jerry Falwell.
[00:43:26] Marcia: I’ve got my issues. I’ve got my issues with St. Paul, but I’m not going to equate him with Jerry Falwell Jr. Yeah.
[00:43:39] De’Vannon: That’s all we have for the free version of the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, my beautiful people, but Hey, have your vomming on what you’re hearing and want to take it to that next level. Then perhaps a subscription may be in order access to full length episodes only cost $2 and 99 cents a month. [00:44:00] Or you can do $25 for a year, or if you’re down on your cash, you can literally don’t.
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[00:44:27] Thank you so much for listening and just remember that everything is going to be all right.