I feel like there’s no better qualification to have than personal experience when it comes to being validated to speak on a particular topic. My episodes entitled “Community Conversations” highlight individuals from within society who have lived through intense experiences and are willing to be super transparent about everything so that someone else may be helped. There is a certain kind of healing that happens when we hear someone else talking about experiences that mirror our own. Today I am speaking with Madame Jaikaran who hails from the island of Trinidad and we will cover everything from menopause to the church to immigration and everything in between. I really hope this helps someone…
INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):
· Raw And Uncut Conversation With A Native Of Trinidad
· The Need To Get Away From The Islands
· Immigrant Struggles With Geographic And Cultural Transition
· Fearmongering Vs. Love
· The Joys Of Having Two Children Who Are LGBTQIA+
· The Benefit Of Letting Some Doors Stay Closed
· Why Blood Is NOT Thicker Than Water
· Wisdom From Whitney Houston
· The Perils Of Being LGBTQIA+ In West Indian Islands
· The DISCONNECT Between What Churches/Religion Say Vs. What God Says
· How Churches Have Pushed Us And Our Children Away
· An Intense Look Into Menopause
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[00:00:00] You’re listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to. And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right. At the end of the day, my name is Davanon and I’ll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world. As we dig into topics that are too risky for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what’s really going on in your.
[00:00:24] There was nothing on the table and we’ve got a lot to talk about. So let’s dive right into this episode.
[00:00:32] De’Vannon: I feel like there’s no better qualification to have than personal experience when it comes to being validated to speak on a particular topic. My episodes entitled community conversations, highlight individuals from within society who have lived through intense experiences and are willing to be super transparent about everything so that someone else may be helped.
[00:00:58] There was a certain kind of healing that happens [00:01:00] when we hear someone else talking about experiences that mirror our own. Today. I’m speaking with Madame Jaikaran who hails from the island of Trinidad, and we will cover everything from menopause to the church. To immigration and everything in between. I really hope this helps someone.
[00:01:20] Madam Jaikaran, welcome into the sector, drugs and Jesus’ podcasts. How fabulous have you with us today? How are you
[00:01:29] Madame Jaikaran: De’Vannon Thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:31] De’Vannon: I appreciate it immensely. And I’m super humbled by this because you are my cherry popper today. I’ve never done a. A conversation with somebody who was not a, a podcast host or an author or some sort of expert or whatever, because I wanted to start a series and this is going to be called community conversations where I’m sitting down and talking to people, the homeys and everything from the community and stuff like that, because [00:02:00] there’s a lot of healing when people hear that other people are going through the same thing that they’re going through, whether they’re giving any advice or not, it can break shackles and set people free just to know to tangibly, hear somebody say that they are not alone.
[00:02:15] And so due to your transparent nature, I felt like you were the best fit to break the show into this new direction. Um, You know, just talking to people, you know, who are, who are just living life. You know, I think it’s a very interesting angle. And so I’m happy to go down this road with you. And so you are the first, you get the Nancy Pelosi.
[00:02:45] And so we know you, um, um, uh, are, you know, Trinidadian, you are in the island of Trinidad, uh, into Wago. Um, very, I mean, it’s, [00:03:00] it’s, it’s kind of obvious from the last name. Uh , which is a very beautiful name. You know, it means like you, you, you love people, you hate conflict and stuff like that. I did a search on the name J credit and it’s, it’s very, very beautiful and, um, So what, so we’re going to talk today about some of like the struggles and things like that, that, that we discussed not too long ago when we were at, at lunch and that we were going to really, really go into detail.
[00:03:30] Um, talk to talk to me about what it, what it was like growing up in Trinidad and, you know, trying to make it to American. Why you even wanted to come here?
[00:03:46] Madame Jaikaran: Well, internet is a lot of the culture is a lot different. It’s very, um, we are a tight knit community. I come from a very large family. [00:04:00] So basically if your siblings.
[00:04:03] So you have that same structure that you have at home. You have a church that you have at school. It doesn’t matter. It’s the same structure. It’s a Catholic doctrine. You are raised in a very staunch Catholic household where, you know, you try to fit in, but sometimes you don’t know in that. What I mean is we’ve struggled in terms of emotions in our home.
[00:04:40] So me wanting to leave that I needed to be able to be more expressive. That’s not something that we do in the islands. It’s very suppressed. So I needed to get away from that to actually show more emotion. I met my. Husband [00:05:00] intranet. We both had the same feeling that we wanted to go do something different.
[00:05:07] So we decided to migrate migrating here was an absolute shock because, you know, we went straight to New York. New York is very fast paced, but coming from a very slow, what you would say rural, we were coming from a very rural mindset to come into the, to the, to America. You know, New York is very fast.
[00:05:39] They used, we struggled at first, not just financially, but trying to understand the culture, trying to understand just simple things, the money. That you know, people don’t talk about that when you migrate it’s you’re converting money, you’re trying to [00:06:00] financially get yourself back to where you were, where you came from.
[00:06:04] You also had to, you know, we didn’t understand some of the woods. So some woods in a British setting is very different to American sentence. And also, you know, we were trying to find ourselves as well, too. So now being you’re coming back and you’re coming from an emotionally barren place in the island to somewhere that everybody can emotionally be free, it was shocking, scary.
[00:06:40] And, you know, we just, we were like, what do we do? We don’t know how to, I don’t know how to get the word out, but we just didn’t know how to accept it. So it was a bit of a, it was a bit of a transition for us, but this was the reason we [00:07:00] came was to get that emotional release, to get the acceptance, to understand different things.
[00:07:07] It was, it took a few years. It’s not something you’re going to learn within the first two weeks. No, it took us years to transition, to being an American. Something that you take very lightly. This is something that we had to literally grasp. And for, you know, for people who are coming from different places, it’s hard to do.
[00:07:36] It’s literally hard. There’s not a class that tells you, oh, this is what you do in this situation. We got to figure it out, whether it’s correct or it’s not, we just got to figure it out. But at least. My husband here. It was easy. It was easier for me. It was harder for him, you know, as a man, but for me, there was a little bit [00:08:00] easier.
[00:08:01] De’Vannon: Give me, give me a direct example of something that you really struggle with. Figuring out maybe something that didn’t translate well from the islands to the states or something that you really had to overcome, no matter how simple or complex, give me an example of something that you had to, maybe you got wrong in the first couple of times you did it.
[00:08:22] Madame Jaikaran: Well, one word, um, custodian in the islands. When you work in a bank, you work as the treasury custodian, meaning that you were in charge of the bank money, which is what I did. So I came here and I applied to a bank and I put that I was the treasury custodian. They interviewed me as the cleaner and that was it.
[00:08:50] That was something that, you know,
[00:09:01] um, well, I, I looked at the lady in the interview and I just said, no, thank you. Thank you very much, but no, thank you. And I w I walked away and I came back home and I’m asking my husband, I’m like, why would they interview me? Fuck a cleaning job when I was a try the custodian. And that’s when he said, well, let’s look it up.
[00:09:33] One thing, we always thought that we would always use our bridge. Dictionary wrong thing. We looked it up in a Maria Marianne Webster dictionary, American dictionary, and that’s where we found it. So now we have to start going to dictionary to understand things that we need. But it’s so different. So that was, I think the most critical one for me [00:10:00] was just that it was,
[00:10:06] De’Vannon: I’ve been, uh, uh, go ahead. Finish your thought. No, no, no, no, that was it. Okay. I I’ve been a janitor before, uh, for a few years at the department of veterans affairs and yeah, it’s a difference in between scrubbing floors, cleaning up shit and all kinds of things that people leave laying around then being in charge of the, uh, I say, would say in the game, in the game of Thrones, the master of coin,
[00:10:39] I’m not sure to be the master of coin. All right. So, so you mentioned that you experienced like, uh, racism, uh, hatred from black people against Caribbeans. Tell me, tell me what sort of experience you had.
[00:10:57] Madame Jaikaran: The first thing is I’ll accent. [00:11:00] So immediately whether you see me or not, you’re hearing my voice. And at first I had a very, very strong, distinctive accent coming from Trinidad, and we speak quickly.
[00:11:13] We, we have this very same song way of speaking. So, you know, I would go from interview to interview and the minute I walk in the door, it’s either first I’m black, second I’m female. And third I’m an immigrant. And I noticed going from John. To job, to job, trying to get jobs. I was not successful. I started to, you know, figure out well, trying to figure out what was wrong.
[00:11:48] And you know, this is a passage, both my husband and myself, we were going through trying to figure out what exactly was reason, what qualified, you know, we’re hard workers. What, why, why, [00:12:00] what if we get into jobs? Well, come to find out. It was really because we’re immigrants. People just did not like the fact that we were immigrants, um, interviewing with other black people thinking, well, okay, you know, my foot’s going to be in the door because somebody is going, gonna give me a, uh, help out realizing no, they don’t want to help.
[00:12:22] The minute they hear the accent, they think, okay, you’re trying to come here and take jobs away from American citizens and stuff. No, I want them to have the same life you have. I want to pitch in and. I don’t care who I’m helping, whether it’s a citizen or immigrant as an immigrant, we don’t see that line, that division between the citizen, to the immigrant.
[00:12:45] We see people. We want to be a part of you. We don’t want to be isolated. We don’t want to be, you know, left out. So from the time we speak or things that we may do, [00:13:00] they already, you know, you cast us as, oh my God. Oh God. Then they ask you, well, well, where are you from? You know, the small chitchat talk. And if I start saying, well, I am from an island.
[00:13:16] Immediately. Oh, that’s so nice. And then the, you would start seeing, well, you don’t have this, or you don’t have that, or you didn’t ask me for that, but you’re now starting to segregate me because I I’m an immigrant and it’s really unfair, you know, the cast Jamaicans the same way they’ve passed Trinidadian ans, but they don’t do it to Canadians.
[00:13:43] They don’t do it to the British. They only do it to Western islands. And we we’ve been excluded from jobs from opportunities just because of our accent from origins. [00:14:00] They don’t give us a chance. They don’t try to, you know, they, they don’t care. They don’t want to hear it. I’ve been to one interview where I walk in, I told them I was outside of Leeton and they literally.
[00:14:16] Let me interview with the secretary I left from New York, took the train to Connecticut, sat there and was interviewed by the secretary, just went out, just went back home and said, well, like that was a waste just because as I spoke at the front desk, they heard my accent. Not even opportunity to go in and flip up, you don’t know what well, if I come with what, what I can do, you immediately, the cast blockers were meaning in past, you know, you segregate us basically as there are white [00:15:00] people at the top black people, and then they’re black immigrants.
[00:15:05] So we must always see at the bottom. We must never, we’ll never give him a chance to succeed. We have to work, work hard, very hard work all the time. We’re constantly working. So, you know, it’s really difficult. We’ll still keep doing what we want to do because of the opportunity we get here. It’s still better than where we are home, but we just wish people would open up and understand.
[00:15:35] We’re not here to take your job. We’re here to help and promote this country.
[00:15:42] De’Vannon: Well, hopefully more people become more. Open-minded um, I’m very happy to weigh things of the, on politically, the sort of the sort of unrest that we have, uh, the kind of disruption, because it’s, you know, people have known this, but now it’s so, so, so when [00:16:00] people’s faces, now that they’ve got to be aside.
[00:16:03] You know what, you know, what side of the fence they’re going to be out of. They are going to be a hater against people trying to come here, fear monger, like Republicans do and say people and take your job, no evidence of that at all. Or are they going to show love bearing in mind that we, that God is not mocked, whatever man, sows, that also will he reap.
[00:16:23] And so, um, so I feel like, you know, you know, it’s a good thing, you know, all that hard work eventually did pay off. I command, you know, your spirit in the immigrant spirit for never quitting and giving up. That’s, what’s the one thing I will say that, you know, you know, immigrants, you know, are strong fighters, you know, you know, you’ve come this far.
[00:16:48] You don’t have any choice, but to keep trying until you make it, um, You know, as being a member of the alphabet mafia, which is my way of saying the LGBTQ plus community, you know, [00:17:00] that’s something that, you know, I in my community are very accustomed with too, you know, doors being closed, you know, y’all want to get married, but we won’t make you a cake.
[00:17:10] We won’t video your wedding. We won’t photograph your wedding. You can’t use our venue. You know, people, people can be hateful, especially white people can be very, very, very like anti and against just about anything. That’s not them. So, and not that other reasons because can’t be, but in other people and you know, can’t be hateful, but it’s something, there is something different about white people, especially white conservative.
[00:17:45] People, they just like to just say, fuck you to everybody else. And, um, in, in, in, um, and then, you know, turn around and want to go to [00:18:00] church on Sunday until a woman had to get an abortion when they’ve just caused all this havoc throughout the week. And, um, so we’ll get on the spiritual stuff in just a moment, but now you, you have the good fortune of having not one but two sons who are member of the alphabet, a mafia as well.
[00:18:20] What’s it, what’s it like having the gift of two non straight children?
[00:18:28] Madame Jaikaran: Beautiful. I couldn’t ask for anything better. I have two beautiful kids, men, me, men. I have two wonderful men care and men too. Amazing men. I, I don’t, I just don’t know if anybody else will ever have that pleasure of having [00:19:00] two beautiful children.
[00:19:05] De’Vannon: no, go ahead, please continue.
[00:19:08] Madame Jaikaran: No, I was just about to say, you know, people don’t understand what it’s like to have kids and then to raise kids and then to see them succeed. And I’ve seen that my children may struggle once in a while, but I don’t think they struggled with identity in that they can enjoy their lives.
[00:19:33] Now, a lot of people from the alphabet mafia has made it to where my child. Can walk freely and be free to be themselves. So I go give kudos to everyone. Who’s walked before my children in their path and made a better path for my kids.
[00:19:58] De’Vannon: What would you [00:20:00] say to someone who, whose family did not accept them?
[00:20:07] Um, um, any, um, neither whatever age they are be, they grown now or, you know, like, you know, like your children or any age, what would you say to them? You know, maybe their parents kick them out and stuff like that. Um, which, which still happens. Yeah.
[00:20:29] Madame Jaikaran: I would say shame on you.
[00:20:31] De’Vannon: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What would you say to the person who got rejected by their family?
[00:20:37] Madame Jaikaran: I would tell them there’s still low. Let that door stay closed. Find on your door, open it, open a new door, go somewhere else. Go where you find love, go where you are accepted. Trying to break that door down is too much energy. Do not put your energy there. [00:21:00] Find other people like-minded and go where there is love, because there’s nothing you can do.
[00:21:09] A lot of these people, I notice have anxiety because of society. So you have to go where people are like, you will like, you will love you, who you are will accept you. I do not favor trying to change people’s minds. I don’t care. You don’t like me go away. I will find someone else. I want these kids to list.
[00:21:39] Literally find love where ever they can. So I know, yes, you heard because you’ve been up cats, kids I’ve been thrown out from their families. Their friends have shunned them. Their [00:22:00] jobs have shunned them. There’s so much of society that is just disconnected from them. And they’re alone. You have to find someone who will love you for you.
[00:22:14] I don’t know. You know, I don’t know what it would be like, how challenging it is and how strong someone is. If they have to go through that, it’s an inner Stripe, but I hope they develop a really.
[00:22:31] De’Vannon: Thank you for such a beautiful advice. Madam Jacob, I’m going to quote, I’m going to quote Whitney Houston, then I’m going to quote the, uh, the Hebrew Bible.
[00:22:41] And then that order. So as Whitney Houston said, you know, during her day that she was smoking her crack and doing her cocaine when she was shooting the body guard, which they had to pause as I understand it because she overdosed, you know, but from their tongue, from her song queen of the night, my favorite line from it, she says [00:23:00] you got a problem with the way that I am, this ain’t my trouble.
[00:23:03] And I don’t give a damn. And then, uh, and then the Bible says that. Better, uh, uh, uh, you know, a friend the near than a brother far, and then there’s a friend that sticks closer than a brother. And so what this is saying is if somebody else has a problem with you, then fuck them. It’s their problem. You don’t have to make it yours and that your true family and your true comrades are the ones that you find in life, not necessarily the ones that you were born into, and now it can be hard for us to silver blood ties.
[00:23:39] You know, we’re raising families. We see that as a part of our culture, wisdom, wisdom tells us that whoever it is that will not accept you for who you are, be it, your biological family, mother, or brother, father, aunts, uncles, whoever, then it’s time for you to get a family of your choosing who will accept [00:24:00] you and not discard you because of persons.
[00:24:04] Because the way you were born and then the other kind of personal choice that you may be making, which doesn’t even have an effect on them, they just simply don’t like things. So, and like, like Madam Jaker and said there’s no, there’s no sense in trying to change people’s minds because they’re coming from a place of their own convictions and their own upbringing and beliefs and norms and their mind that they’ve never challenged and trying to project that on you.
[00:24:31] So you’re fighting Jim generations in history and years of ignorance. That’s manifesting in one single individual. It’s much easier. It’s not easy, but it’s much easier to walk away from people who are hating you and hurting you like that. And find something new as awkward and difficult at first. But they be like, like my Angelo said, like the dust dust from the ashes, you will rise and [00:25:00] it’ll be brighter in the morning.
[00:25:02] Madame Jaikaran: And that’s what I want. As you know, going back to that topic. That’s what I want. Whether you’re young coming out, whether you’re old coming out, it doesn’t matter. Blood is not water. It really isn’t. It is who is there for you to pick up the pieces when you are your anxiety recent, you’re in the middle of a storm.
[00:25:27] You don’t, you just can’t grasp what’s going on in life because your mind is recent. You need to be able to call someone to who can accept you. That’s what you need at all times. Family will not come all the time, but if you’ve got some buddy or a group who will be there for you, that’s who you need.
[00:25:51] Don’t chase. Don’t keep chasing a tail, which is the family. Family is everything that is caught up to be [00:26:00] anyway. Family has just been a unit. It’s just been a tribe. Sometimes you got to leave the tribe. Sometimes you gotta walk alone, you gotta find yourself and you got to be strong. That’s what I really want people to learn is strength.
[00:26:19] That’s what a lot of the, the alphabet mafia needs to have is that inner strength to see, fuck you
[00:26:31] De’Vannon: now. Um, and, and fuck you very much. If you want to be a little polite about it. Um, some of my friends, um, are actually. Have like their fingers crossed, like, like when they have kids, like they do not want them to be straight.
[00:26:49] Like they really, really, really leave these. And these are straight friends that I have. They’re like, please God, let them be gay. They just like, they, they, they want that, [00:27:00] you know, that fun zesty, you know, gay kid, you know, that’s like painting his nails and he’s like to over at the fuck ever, you know, and everything like that.
[00:27:09] And just, you know, having a good old time in life, they, you know, they would just have like so much fun. And, um, I want
[00:27:19] Madame Jaikaran: to tell you, I just want just a one comment. Oh, sorry to cut you across. But you know, they’re like that. But when that child goes to school, that child no has to deal with the straight kids and the, the, the, the, what is it?
[00:27:39] The judgment. From those street parents. So now you have your child, but you know, you like, cause it’s cute and everything, but you have to be careful because this poor child is going to be like, so, you know, you have, if you know, you’re going to have a [00:28:00] gay kid, have to immediately start honing in on, you have to be more sensitive.
[00:28:07] You have to be very careful who they’re around because they’re still parts of this pockets of this community that want to change that child. They don’t want to see the inner beauty of the kid. They see just the outward thing that scares them. They don’t want that child around. And no, you know, it’s like, I wanna say something weird, but it’s like having a boutique kid because it’s.
[00:28:41] No, you have to have that kid and realize you have a gym and you have to really cultivate this Joan for this jump to grow. I hope I didn’t mean to cut you across, but I just wanted to bring that out. It was like a needed to say that.
[00:28:58] De’Vannon: I mean, no, not at all. Um, [00:29:00] I mean, not a problem at all. Um, so you’re saying that there is, uh, sections of society that would, would maybe try to change the child and stuff like that.
[00:29:14] Can you give me an example of what maybe you saw one of your sons go through growing up that would prompt you to say that? What, what sort of struggles in that regard that you experience with your sons?
[00:29:25] Madame Jaikaran: Well, they didn’t come out to me until very late, so I didn’t know, but my thing with them was. Be yourself, enjoy yourself.
[00:29:35] You know, you have friends around your friends that are there and, you know, I never saw anything that will hurt them. I didn’t see it because, you know, in the, in all community where we live, there were more people of color. There were more brown people. So my children stayed [00:30:00] with, they run with the same crowd.
[00:30:02] They were nuts. And inside the nerd community, they could hide themselves. They didn’t have to come out to their friends. They didn’t have to come out to, you know, other family members like cousins or anything because it were nuts. So they didn’t have a really hard time. But the older they got, you know, I really didn’t see them.
[00:30:28] My oldest one, he didn’t have any problems making friends, you know, I don’t think, I think he said once he did just tell me once he was riding on the bus and someone made a comment about the gay community and he felt awkward because he, he knew he was gay, but he couldn’t say anything, but strangely enough, that’s not his circle of friends.
[00:30:58] So it wasn’t somebody, [00:31:00] he felt he cared much about. It was just, okay, I’m not going to say much because they may hook me on the bus, but he never ran with that. That crowd of people, he just ruined the bus. Some team who had a different circle of friends around him, his friends and my younger one would, they had the same friends.
[00:31:24] Those friends literally lifted them. In terms of the accepted it, they knew that they were gay, they accepted them, they felt safe.
[00:31:36] So I, I don’t it, that might, if the answers it,
[00:31:42] De’Vannon: I mean, that’s what we were talking about. Finding, you know, a family where you can and, you know, you know, making it work, you know, w with what you’ve got, um, rather than trying to, to hold on and, you know, and [00:32:00] it’s due to stressful blood relatives, you know, the stress of a family can put people in the hospital, they can call them for health.
[00:32:08] You know, people arguing, trying to change this person, not accepting this person who they want to love and bring home, you know, families, the families can really, really, really be a hot damn mess, you know, at times in, and then you said that, um, That you don’t feel like your sons could have lived in Trinidad as being gay, uh, explain why wasn’t going on with the culture down there.
[00:32:33] That would make that difficult
[00:32:37] Madame Jaikaran: but in Jamaica, they culture is that they do not like gay people. They’re afraid of them. They’ll beat them. They ostracize them. They believe that, you know, you’re just not part of the community. So they look down on you. So instead of seeing what you could achieve or see what you could [00:33:00] bring to the table, they immediately say, well, oh no, I don’t want to be around that.
[00:33:04] Or I don’t want to be around this person. I don’t want to be, I’m afraid I’ll get something from them. Or, you know, this was, I think what happened at manifested more in the eighties when aids was around, everybody thought anybody who was gay had aids. So right away, they thought. If I touch this desk, I’m going to get eight.
[00:33:27] Um, if I sit in the toilet, I’m going to get aids. So they started to hit the gay community. They would run them down, they would stone them. They would throw stuff at them. So just that alone. I don’t see those people are still alive. Those people, maybe in the sixties and seventies that we are thinking has not passed on to their children.
[00:33:58] Their children would be my [00:34:00] age. They would be in their forties. There’ll be in their fifties. Those people have children. So there’s three generations that grew up thinking that every gay person had aids and will bring it to the community. So if you will. And you will gain, you will be in torture. You will be in molested.
[00:34:24] You will be in stone. You will sometimes turn up dead. That’s how bad it was. I wouldn’t go home to that because this, the way of thinking is still the same. You’ve got Catholicism. That’s literally still trying to put that choke, hold on. People’s way of thinking. So they still think, oh my God. I said, gay guy.
[00:34:55] Oh my God, I don’t get aids. No, [00:35:00] if it’s so they’re so closed minded. It’s ridiculous. It’s very, very, their way of thinking is stagnant. It’s still stagnant. So would I. My kids to go home and, you know, deal with the cousins at any level. Yes. But not to have to go through being ridiculed or made you feel bad about yourself or looking down at them.
[00:35:34] No, I wouldn’t want anybody to go through that. No one should go through it at least of all my kids, because they’re mine.
[00:35:49] De’Vannon: Oh, absolutely. Um, Madam J crew. And so the hardheadedness of motherfuckers is something that. [00:36:00] That th th that is, that is really, um, unfixable. You know, I think about people who won’t get the COVID-19 vaccine, people who want to persecute women who want to get abortions, people who have these set notions and ways and them, and so people who’ve been rejected for being LGBTQ plus, or having an open relationship or being in a polyamorous relationship or having some sort of something about you that offends people who have a stick of their ass.
[00:36:32] It’s not, you know, you can’t, you know, like, like you’re saying, um, Madam, you know, the better energy is to move forward and, and respectfully distance yourself. And it may take time to do you know, we’re not saying this can happen overnight, but you know, a plan does need to be put in place because you will spend the rest of your life and end up in the hospital.
[00:36:58] A mother, the mother, [00:37:00] the like you won’t accept you for who you are or a friend or a church community, or anywhere like that. Now there’s places out there that you can go with the way we’re connected with, you know, the internet and wifi these days, you know, you live in a rural place, you know, there’s, um, you know, there’s ways to go on there and get connected with people, even in the gaming community, you know, the Twitch streamers and stuff like that.
[00:37:24] People go into the, uh, the gaming Twitch streams and they’ve voiced their problem and stuff like that. And they find community, you know, in all kinds of ways. And, um, um, and which I’m super excited. Cause you know, I recently learned about that. I’m going to be doing a show with, with a game or a twitcher soon.
[00:37:43] And, uh, because I really want to highlight the support that’s found in the gaming community. ,
[00:37:49] Now. Uh, you said, um, well,
[00:37:56] uh, talk about the juxtaposition between [00:38:00] raising gay kids versus the conformity of the church, because, you know, you talked about, I believe it was Roman Catholic Catholicism. And, um, how, how was the conflict there and between what the church is telling you versus how you feel in your heart?
[00:38:19] Madame Jaikaran: There’s a big disconnect.
[00:38:21] The Roman Catholic church in the Bible, from what. Says that God accepts everyone. But man, now priests is telling you, you couldn’t do only a man can be with a woman. So there lies the beginning of the disconnect, right? So if you try to go to church as a gay person, they won’t try to accept you. They’re not trying to accept you because they already have it in their mind.
[00:38:53] It should be the union as a romantic, a woman. So why [00:39:00] go to somewhere where spiritually, you’re not going to be accepted. You’re not accepted for who you are and the church doesn’t want to change. The church has been set in stone from when it started, where the priest is making the decision is no longer set.
[00:39:21] Just read the Bible and you can believe that God is going to accept you. So I have an issue with Catholicism in that it’s literally a joke when it comes to things that don’t conform to, what man has interpreted to be. So man is constantly saying, well, you have to be, you know, this, you have to be this, you, you basically cookie cutter.
[00:39:53] You must be a cookie cutter to what they want you to be. God is telling you there’s an [00:40:00] open canvas. You could be anything. I’m still gonna accept you. Who, who whole weeds it, say what God is determining. So that’s where I have a problem. How can you raise gay kids in a church, on an environment? The minute they step foot, people are telling them, well, you’re going to burn in hell.
[00:40:25] You’re going to be struck by that. Then you, so imagine as a child, you’re hearing this, I stopped carrying my kids to church. I think when they were like six, not knowing that they were engaged, just not believing a lot of things. So no, I have a agnostic kid and one who is, you know, my older one is he’s religious, but my second one is not because he already felt like he’s hearing people talking about church.
[00:40:59] And [00:41:00] when you go to church, there’s always the, as I say, the cookie cutter way, but you must conform. And if he’s not inside there, where does he belong? Does he sit outside? Where does my child belong? He doesn’t feel like he belongs. So why go somewhere? Why push yourself into this place? That’s already telling you I don’t accept you.
[00:41:24] So why do I continue with the Catholicism or imparting, you know, these fable things that they keep saying, I just don’t believe it. I don’t believe I need to push this on them. They make their own decisions. They, they make their own path in life. They guide themselves accordingly. You just live a good life.
[00:41:47] That’s basically what God is saying. Living good life. Don’t do harm to anyone. And that’s what we should all do. But instead we allow a lot [00:42:00] of mind to tell us you have to be this way, or you’ll never get that. I don’t believe that. What do they put gay people like in a separate the, like in the balcony section or what, what, where do we all go?
[00:42:17] Where do they, where do straight people go? The church does not, it does not give us a forum to accept everyone. So I don’t believe in it have kind of lost a little bit of my I’ve lost a lot in the last couple of years in believing in it, because it doesn’t text steps, my kids, and that’s, you know, the most important thing to me, my family, if you’re going to throw my family away, I can’t account.
[00:42:54] I can’t enter those doors again. I just can’t.[00:43:00]
[00:43:02] De’Vannon: Okay. So, um, I can certainly understand that. So then. So, what I’m hearing you say is that due to the, uh, the off putting ways that church people can be and experiences that you had particularly directed at your children, because you know your children, you know, that they’re good people, but somebody is reading a book and getting out of their things that they’re speaking against your children and therefore you can’t fucks with them.
[00:43:32] And so that makes, that makes perfectly good sense to me. One of your kids didn’t believe in anything and then the other one is religious. And then so you, uh, having, so you no longer, so you’re no longer practicing Roman Catholic? Not really. Not really, or no. Which one? I
[00:43:55] Madame Jaikaran: believe, I believe I still believe in God.
[00:43:59] [00:44:00] I believe in God. Basically I can say, I believe in God, full stop. You know, I do not believe in what man is saying. So I know there is a God. I just asked for protection for my kids, asked for protection over all of us over everyone. And that’s, as far as I go, no, the older one, he believes that there’s good.
[00:44:26] And that’s a great way of thinking. My younger one just says, I don’t believe there’s anything. You know, we just, you know, there was a big bang and we will create it. How can I change that? He has to change it on his own. I believe in following your path, finding your own information. Finding your destiny. I must not pleased with destiny in front of you because then you’re no longer at this time to go down your path.
[00:44:57] You’re going down my path. [00:45:00] So I leave everything open to them. Religion is open to them, just be a good person, just don’t do harm to other people. That’s the important thing people need to understand is whether or not you meet a gay person, they are still good on the inside. Whether they are gay, whether they drink.
[00:45:21] I don’t care. If you believe in that you identify as a monster truck, whatever you are just be good on the inside. And that comes straight from God. It doesn’t have to be filtered through a man. And that’s where we have a problem is that filtration system that we’ve got, we have a problem. Rightly so. I believe in.
[00:45:48] There may be. I have an unhealthy, that’s not a problem, but for right now, I have kind of like taken that off the [00:46:00] table in my household. It’s not something that we go to. We don’t go to church because I don’t believe in simple mockery of just going and recite and stuff and just going, you know, you’re just doing it in rotation.
[00:46:17] It’s like, oh, this stand up, sit down, kneel down this. You’re just doing it now by rotation. You’ve learned it. You keep doing it. You’re not learning anything. We still walk out. We walk outside, we’re ready to shoot you. We still ready to take care of you. We’re ready to curse you right outside the door.
[00:46:35] What have we learned? Nothing. So what, why, why should we go there? That’s where I’m like, why do I go through that filtration system? That’s definitely telling me lots of different things in my head. I don’t need that. I need the direct path straight to God. He and I have a conversation. We talk about good.
[00:46:58] We talk about bad. [00:47:00] That’s it? Nothing else. No one else. It’s, it’s a simplification of life that I think I’ve just gotten accustomed to.
[00:47:12] De’Vannon: Well, I hear you preaching better than I’ve heard anybody preach in a while. I met him Jake written because the thing is, and this is a, a strong theme of my ministry is spiritual independence.
[00:47:25] And so I’m very much against denominations. Um, I know some people love their denominations and everything like that, but, you know, we can, you know, get into the worship of the nominations and ritual before we realize we have fallen down that rabbit hole. And, um, and I’m against them because. Of all the rituals and everything like that.
[00:47:49] And when I used to be in them, you know, looking back I’m like, what, what, why, why was I even doing all of that? What was I really worshiping? What, what was the point? And, um, [00:48:00] so what, what we gotta be careful about is that in our abandonment of physical churches and the nominations, that we don’t throw God away with it, which is something that, that I did before as well, whenever I got kicked out of church.
[00:48:13] And so, so the mind charisma of the people is to, you know, your most important time, you know, when you were alone with, with, with whatever you believe in, be it God or whatever, you know, if you’re not choosing the way of Christ and whatever it is, you know, we’re not judging you here for whatever you want to worship.
[00:48:33] And so, you know, my encouragement is. To be aggressive about it though, you know, and not leave it floating kind of like in a limbo, you know, if you’re going to worship price, you know, and find ways to study him by yourself, you know, reach out to people for advice, you know, and stuff like that, if you need to.
[00:48:52] But your most important time is your alone time. So just because the church pissed us off, we’ve seen our friends and family members and loved ones get hurt by them. [00:49:00] We would do ourselves a disservice to abandon all spirituality because we can get hurt and we can do that sometimes, you know, throw it all all the way.
[00:49:08] And I done that before. So, um, you know, as I say, you know, there isn’t anything wrong with Christ, but there is a lot wrong with Christian and the church people. And it can be hard sometimes to tell the difference between. You know, between Christ and Christians and church people, but they’re not the same.
[00:49:26] And so I hope to address that in great detail on my show, moving forward, and then in my blog and in my books and stuff like that, because, um, this is a big deal. It happens a lot. Some of my straight friends will not go to church because of the things that they have seen happened to their gay friends.
[00:49:42] And they’re like, we just, we can’t do it. And so, um,
[00:49:49] and so, so that’s where you’re at spiritually are personally, don’t physically go to a church. I was going to a university Presbyterian church here at Louisiana state university that led [00:50:00] you before the pandemic. But, you know, and you know, it’s not like, you know, ever since I, I got thrown out of church all those years ago has never really had the same taste in my mouth.
[00:50:10] You know, they are a gay affirming church. I do always want to make that point. You know, there are LGBTQ. Churches and denominations Lutheran, Episcopalian, metropolitan community church, some of the Presbyterian churches, you know, they have gay preachers. They CA they ordain trans people. You know, they, and I have all those resources on my website, second drugs and jesus.com you know, knowledge is power.
[00:50:35] And like, and like the Lord says, people perish for lack of knowledge, but there’s actually churches. And, you know, if you do like the nominations and stuff like that, I’m not saying they’re all just inherently evil, but I’m saying that they, they gotta have their place, you know, you know, second to God. And, um, but they are actually the nominations that are totally open to LGBTQ people.
[00:50:57] You can be trans, uh, [00:51:00] you can be polyamorous, you know, whatever it is that you do, you can go in there and you’re not going to be judged. People are not going to get uncomfortable. And so it’s shifting in their seats and all of the bullshit and the dramatic, um, things that happen when you go into conservative churches, you know, they’re not the only option.
[00:51:18] Madame Jaikaran: Yes. And that’s important because you know, for give parents, we need to know, um, kids are safe. We have that, like, it’s more of a, a union to understand that people will accept kids. It’s just, it’s so hot. It’s not, uh, an autistic child. This is a child that’s gay. That has an alternative lifestyle. They’ll lifestyle should not dictate how you treat them.
[00:51:58] You should just [00:52:00] how you treat anybody else. It doesn’t matter. As I said, you couldn’t identify a freaking helicopter. Gotcha. What difference does it make? Just be, you know, accepted. Yes, no, they have some of the churches. Cause there are a few here. Um, And there’s like one or two that I’ve known. I’ve seen where they say, you know, we accept straight gay, queer, whatever, whatever else.
[00:52:27] I don’t know all the letters, but you know, they accept everyone. And I absolutely liked seeing that, but guess where they are, they’re in the white community, they’re never in the black communities. So now I’ve got to trudge all the way down to the white community. When sometimes, you know, I don’t feel comfortable.
[00:52:51] I’m not comfortable going there. So that’s another thing. So can I really feel comfortable going in an area where there is not [00:53:00] anyone looking like me as a black woman, going into a community that say, well, we accept everybody, but there’s always a, but there’s always a, but because I’m, you know, a little, um, calm.
[00:53:14] We accept this, this, this, this, that, but we kind of, I really don’t want black people here cause you know, so do they really accept everybody? No, there’s never that one place that everyone feels accepted. It’s always a, but, and that’s why, you know, it’s so hard just to find that one place that you feel accepted, totally accepted.
[00:53:43] Totally let your hair down. Totally feel comfortable. Feel like an absolute family. There’s just not that place. That’s why there’s so many, you know, introverts that are gay. They can’t come out. They become [00:54:00] nuts. They become isolated. The just there’s no community that they could completely envelop themselves in.
[00:54:10] And, you know,
[00:54:15] Um, I’m sorry. It’s like, yes, they do have it. Cause I did he see the van for churches, but then as I said, the churches are not going to accept us now because my sons are black. So
[00:54:31] De’Vannon: I guess it ain’t one thing it’s another, the hearing you explained that, you know, the isolation that you feel, you know, you know, if people, people could feel that way, oftentimes even though they were in a room full of people.
[00:54:48] Yeah. And, um, yeah. And so the question is, you know, what can we do with that? You know, that I counsel people to really, really, really, really work on their [00:55:00] spiritual life because. You know, it’s a, it’s a strong part of who you are and if you don’t do anything with it, then a strong part of you is starred and you’re going to be out of balance.
[00:55:09] Now, when you really get your, your mind and spirit in order, you can be by yourself and never, ever feel alone as your relationship with your higher power, whoever it is, you choose to worship via Christ or whomever, um, grows and strengthens. Um, because we can’t, we can’t wait and depend on people because that’s just not where it’s at.
[00:55:33] Uh, and, um, so yeah, I don’t physically go to church. I like to stay home, read my Bible. I pray, you know, I meditate, you know, I, you know, I come up with ways to get closer to him and that’s my greatest prayers to get closer to, to God. And, um, And, you know, if I do go to a church every now and then, which that’ll be after the pandemic is over, you know, it’ll be just cause I [00:56:00] want to, but it’s not like I felt like I have to.
[00:56:02] And, um, and so, all right, so then let’s switch gears. The last thing that I want to talk about is, is, is, is a women’s physical health, because the thing that you, I think we’re maybe the most passionate about when we were having our cocktails and conversation on IDEO at the restaurant, was this process of going through menopause, finding out you, you had menopause and it was a big deal you felt, and you feel like they did something that is swept under the rug and not talked about.
[00:56:35] So, so preach on menopause and tell it and just then just preach. Just let the Lord do you use you?
[00:56:42] Madame Jaikaran: Well, basically I started going into. And like two years ago, and I felt like everything was falling apart. I thought my health was failing. Didn’t understand what was going on. Started reading lots of stuff, going to many [00:57:00] different physicians.
[00:57:01] I mean, I went from, I went literally pillar to post from GI doctor to, um, ha cardiologist. I, I don’t want to take too long, but I went literally the GI cardiologists. I went to the PCP. I went to dermatologist. I went to, to, um, the, uh, neurologist. Because nothing connected. There was nothing connecting these dots.
[00:57:34] So I’m waking up with different symptoms. I’m dizzy. I I’m feeling sick. I’m just not feeling like myself. Something’s wrong. What’s going on? So I’m going from one place to the next I’m going for, nobody’s there to connect the dots, not realizing, okay, you’re in your forties, late forties going into fifties.
[00:57:58] Maybe we could look [00:58:00] at this and see if this is going to be something where you can draw conclusions. So I’ve done a study stress test at the EKG. I had to do an EGD. I did basically the alphabet. I’m just going, going, going, not understanding, going to the dermatologist. She’s pulled out a chunk of my scalp to send it for a biopsy, trying to figure out, okay, my hair’s falling out.
[00:58:31] What the heck is going on? Literally couldn’t, um, couldn’t breathe properly. So went up pulmonologist, like, you know, just nothing. Um, I’m thinking the worst. Okay. No one connected the dots at all. I kept reading and I did a sleep study. I just not understand in my body. This is [00:59:00] something that I’ve been with all year and it has proven grateful, you know, this voyage has been great.
[00:59:07] And then I just hit this brick wall. I thought, what the hell is this? Is this some kind of cancer? Is this something nobody to connect the dots everything’s coming back. Perfect. Nothing’s wrong with you? It’s all in your mind, go see a psychologist. I’m like, screw you. It can be in my mind if it’s physical.
[00:59:26] Okay. Then I start, you know, I start talking to other people and they don’t want to have that conversation because they don’t want to accept the end of the end of, you know, childbearing. We just think of who my God, I’m old. I’m going to be old crusty. And you know, people are not going to like me. I’m going to be irritable.
[00:59:47] But in the interim, I am scared. My older brothers, my older sisters, I have quite a few. I’m asking them. They don’t want to have the conversation. They [01:00:00] especially, you know, island people. We don’t talk about that. We don’t talk about loving someone and we don’t talk about, um, Um, you know, female issues, we just don’t talk about it.
[01:00:13] So where do I go? The gluten, my friends, my friends are Western nations. We don’t talk about that, Eva. So ham lost. I have no one to turn to. I’m just reading the internet. I’m thinking they’re God, I’ve got old. I thought I had an array of diseases. Okay. Fast forward to like two years into this. It’s not going away.
[01:00:37] It’s still very bad. Don’t know what to do. I’ve exhausted all the different, you know, doctors I can go to and they keep saying, well, we can’t tell you anything until I stumbled upon reading up about menopause symptoms. So I started reading it and it’s [01:01:00] not the same thing. Like mine, it’s not the same. It’s not the same tool.
[01:01:04] Okay. I’m like, all right. It could be different according to different people. So now he has that asking a different question. I’m asking my girlfriends, have you experienced this? And if you experienced that well, yeah, well you’re going through menopause or don’t, don’t bring that on me. Don’t bring that on me.
[01:01:27] Don’t talk about the tone. Don’t talk that this should be oddity of saying if I tell you, you have, you may be going through this. You think that I’m cursing you with it. I’m like, oh my God. So once again, I go back again and I’m reading and keep reading and I’m trying to understand what is wrong until I said to myself, I think I’m going through medical.
[01:01:54] I started done accept that. That was it because I wanted it to be it because [01:02:00] I’m so tired of having multiple. It’s used multiple factors. Factions of my life is wrong. Parts of my body just normal, longer conform to how they were just two years ago. I’m like, look, I’m going to accept this. And I started reading it or stopped reading it and reading more and more and more.
[01:02:23] I’ve gone to the doctor and they’re like, well, you’re still in paramedicals. And I’m like, I can’t be, I have to be now in menopause. I have to be in it. I want to be in it. I need to be in it so that I can give whatever disease I have a name. I needed some form of closure, some caption, a title to this multiple organ is used that I was going through.
[01:02:53] Eventually I eventually stopped having a period and that’s when I [01:03:00] said, okay, I’m in it now. And I had no one to talk to no one to give me advice. No one to say, well, this could be some of the issues. Everybody shuts down the minute we say menopause, it’s the biggest, dirty word for women in their fifties.
[01:03:23] It’s the worst word you could tell them. We feel like, oh my God, I’m no longer sexually attractive. And that, I think that’s where we have that. That’s where we have a problem
[01:03:39] De’Vannon: now. But when you say menopause is a dirty, where do you think that that is specific to west Indians and, and people in the Caribbean?
[01:03:47] Or do you, or did you find this across all of the women you tried to talk to? No matter of their ethnic makeup.
[01:03:59] Madame Jaikaran: [01:04:00] Mostly west Indian women, mostly women of color, because as you say, we have many, well, they have many preconceptions of different things. So if it’s not something that they like, they keep thinking that you’re trying to curse them. So menopause. It’s like you’re becoming way too. Um, what is the word you’re becoming way too?
[01:04:32] Oh my God. I’m trying to get the word. I said, you’re too close. You becoming way too involved in the lifestyle and in that, in their life. So they want to push you back a little bit. They hit that level of involvement when you’re trying to tell them, Hey, you know what you’re going through could be normal.
[01:04:53] No whip, panic, paranoid, but going through stages because nobody’s telling us, [01:05:00] and then we’re not telling each other. There’s no communication. We’re constantly keeping it so private. We don’t want to talk about it. We’re embarrassed, I guess. So it was mainly the Caribbean community that I was having. The biggest pushback of don’t bring that on yourself.
[01:05:22] Don’t say that kind of, don’t talk that ship in. This was what people would say. Literally, I’m trying to figure out what’s wrong with me. And you’re telling me it’s tripping it because I think, well, it could be this. So it was really the Caribbean community. And at this point, I love to share about it because as you’re saying in your community segments, people may not understand that all these things go wrong.
[01:05:52] At the same time when you’re going through menopause, it’s, you know, [01:06:00] the, I even listened to some of these people on TV, especially the white people they’re talking about it and they make it sound like it’s such a beautiful transition. It really isn’t. It’s the full stop at the end of being able to have a child and your body goes crazy.
[01:06:20] It goes nuts. So there’s nothing nice about it. It’s then you sat down in the hot flashes. I mean, I’m sitting down sweating. I can’t stop sweating. I just don’t understand what’s going on. I was never somebody who swept before. So coming from an area where, you know, I’m literally at one point in New York and I’m sitting outside in the middle of winter, it’s minus 20 degrees and I’m just sitting outside.
[01:06:51] Like a long sleeve top on when Ms. Lauren and I’m right out by, um, I think it was chambers street and I’m [01:07:00] not feeling cold because I’m hot. I’m just hot. It’s this overwhelming heat that comes on you. It’s not normal. It’s just not normal. So when people go through it, it throws us off so badly that we literally can’t think we go blank.
[01:07:21] We forget things. That’s another thing that happens to us. We’re very forgetful and it’s not, you know, dementia. It’s literally your body loses in so many different hormones, creating different things, it’s substitute and stuff, and it’s just gone crazy. And we don’t know what the hell is going on. And nobody’s telling us anything about it and black woman, white woman, it’s the same.
[01:07:52] Cause we just, we just go through this transition period when we’re just crazy. That’s all I can say about it. We just go [01:08:00] nuts because nothing is working from, for me, it was from swallowing. My heart’s racing. It’s the Sletten it’s you put on a little bit of weight. So then psychologically you’re like, oh my God, I am I’m fat.
[01:08:19] I’m ugly. I’m losing my hair. My vision is going all at the same time. I mean, how do we handle this? How do we put all this together and still wake up in the morning and not want to kill folks? I don’t know how. But bottling it up and not talking about it makes it even worse. So we can never document exactly what white woman goes through black woman, Indian woman, Asian woman.
[01:08:47] We can’t get a handle on it because it’s just not something spoken about. Just been something that’s been, you know, brought up to me as far as I’m concerned, these doctors, I have [01:09:00] a feeling cause we’re just going from, from one place to the next and the next to the next, I mean, it’s ridiculous. I’m sorry.
[01:09:11] De’Vannon: There’s nothing to apologize for. So what I thank you for that explanation. That’s definitely going to help some, some woman out there for the light bulb to come on and for her to, to discover what’s happening with herself, transparency is the main themes, the episode and the core of my show. You know, I feel like we can help each other as a community and society.
[01:09:32] When we open up about the problems that we’re having, rather than trying to act like we’re super, super, super people and have our shit together all the time when none of us really do. And so in the show notes, I’m going to be sure to include some sort of link to something about menopause though, do some research and see what I can find.
[01:09:52] But, um, but no, um, I think that, that this is, uh, some good [01:10:00] ground that we’ve covered for this first inaugural community conversations bonus episode. They’re going to be featured as a bonus episodes in, um, And, um, and if anybody has any questions about any of this, be sure to email me at, uh, Davanon and sex drugs and jesus.com, which will go in the show notes as well.
[01:10:25] And, um, if you have any questions for my guests today, let me know that too. And then I can put you in touch with her. Um, so thank you so much. Uh, Madam J Curran for spending this hour with me, um, I really hope this episode helps someone, um, God bless all the gay people. God bless all the womens and, and you know what, we’re all gonna be.
[01:10:56] All right.
[01:10:57] Yes, let’s thank you so much demand. And it [01:11:00] was a blast. It was wonderful. It was amazing closing to you. I really do enjoy conversations with I’m able to open up to be, as you say, very transparent, you know, we don’t have anything to hide. It’s just, you know, such a nice thing that you’re doing for the community.
[01:11:18] Madame Jaikaran: Being able to allow people to figure out what they can do in their life and how they can. You’re helping people by giving them a purpose to life. Thank you so much.
[01:11:33] De’Vannon: Absolutely. Let the Lord be magnified.
[01:11:36] Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at sex, drugs, and jesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me [01:12:00] directly @ email@example.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.
[01:12:05] My name is De’Vannon and it’s been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is going to be all right.